Alaskan Noble Companion Dog (ANCD)

[Kootenaywolf]

Some of the pups from this new litter look like they are going to turn out wolf grey/agouti to me, unlike Mystique/Darwin. Really curious to see how they look as adults!

[Vajente]

Roman looks like a sable to me, don't know about the other 2 but sable and agouti can be almost identical
do you know what dogs(colors) are behind them?

[Nino]

if I remember correctly Sable IS actually an agouti type (on the Agouti locis) .. Ay I think the genotype for sable is.
depending on which breed though Sable might also be Aw I am not 100% sure

there are 4 in the agouti series
Ay - sable
aw - wolfgrey/agouti
at - tan points
a - recessive black

I call a dog agouti when it's aw, sable is a completely different color

Problem is that with some breeds Sable does not actually equal Ay..
As far as I can find in eg. the German Shepherd Dog what they call Sable is Aw..

Aw is also called wild-type since this is eg. what Huskies, Malamutes etc. has whereas Agouti when looking at it is supposed to be all of them..

[Vajente]

sable GSDs are indeed agouti/wolfgrey so aw not Ay
people tend to give their own names to certain colors, which causes much confusing not only in dogs
but it's not that hard to find out the real color

all of them are technically agouti but aw is commonly known as agouti, wolfgrey or wild-type. Sable is as far as I know never called agouti

[Kootenaywolf]

Roman looks like a sable to me, don't know about the other 2 but sable and agouti can be almost identical
do you know what dogs(colors) are behind them?

I agree Roman looks sable more like Mystique/Darwn, but Chuck Norris and Tulip look more agouti to me. Mom of the pups is black, and her mom was black and her dad white. I'm not sure exactly beyond that but I believe Apollo's (the grandfather) dad was an agouti type colour.

Dad is liver - looks kind of off white. Looking for a picture of him, this is the only one I could find, he is the dog in the back behind Darwin - his dad was black, mom was white. Don't know beyond that.

[Nimwey]

Are there any pictures of Mystique and Darwin somewhere?

[Kootenaywolf]

Are there any pictures of Mystique and Darwin somewhere?

Here are some photos of Mystique but they are really old ones, I can't find any public newer ones http://www.takari-tamaskans.com/id89.html

And Darwin is in the link I posted just above, but here it is again -

[Vajente]

Dad is liver - looks kind of off white. Looking for a picture of him, this is the only one I could find, he is the dog in the back behind Darwin - his dad was black, mom was white. Don't know beyond that.

sure he is liver? looks like a red to me but can't see the color of is skin
can't really say much about agouti genes with black and white dogs
starbuck does look like he could be a sable

[Kootenaywolf]

Yes, he is definitely a liver. Here's a video of him, should've thought of that before!

[Tiantai]

Yes, he is definitely a liver. Here's a video of him, should've thought of that before!

Have you taught Yarrow to do that trick yet?

[Jowals]

The dogs are amazingly beautiful and so smart! I would love to have my own. I reached out to see if it was possible to Ann after finding her information in this forum but does anyone else know of other breeders of this dog? They are so awesome!!!

[AZDehlin]

The dogs are amazingly beautiful and so smart! I would love to have my own. I reached out to see if it was possible to Ann after finding her information in this forum but does anyone else know of other breeders of this dog? They are so awesome!!!

Ann is the only breeder at the moment.

[Rurutia]

wow, they are gorgeous, it seems most have those yellow wolfy eyes. 0_0 It's so difficult to choose...ANCD or Tamaskan?

[Valravn]

wow, they are gorgeous, it seems most have those yellow wolfy eyes. 0_0 It's so difficult to choose...ANCD or Tamaskan?

Too perfect. Couldn't resist.

[Booma]

Lol!

[Rurutia]

wow, they are gorgeous, it seems most have those yellow wolfy eyes. 0_0 It's so difficult to choose...ANCD or Tamaskan?

Too perfect. Couldn't resist.

Ur right! why not! XD

[Nimwey]

Finally proof that there is wolf in the ANCD?
From Cindy at Sybil's Den. (http://www.raskbb.com/sybilsden/viewtop ... 7&start=60)

Info found out on the ancd line

"Xena is a wolfdog bred by Karen Evans of Wichita Falls, TX. Her parents were Ladyhawke and Nighthawke 2, bred by Lynn Williams of Howling Hills Kennel in NH. Xena's % is around 65% .

Xena was not the only wolfdog in the ANCD foundation stock. Apollo was an F3, aprox 30% wolfdog, son of Luna. Luna was an F2, 44% wolfdog from a Siberian Husky bred with an 87.5% arctic wolf/Great Pyrenees litter. I do not remember who Luna's breeder was but her wolfdog parent was bred by Linda Wenger in CA. It was out of a 3/4 wolf 1/4 Great Pyrenees female bred with Ice Warrior, a pure arctic wolf from Rick Halvorson. Ice Warrior was a well known wolf in the 1980's who appeared in several movies and publications.

Luna was going to be bred to her son Apollo in 1998, but it never happened, probably because she was too old."

[TerriHolt]

I have believed too much here'say the past few years, I like proof

Do you know where she got the info from?

[HiTenshi16]

I have believed too much here'say the past few years, I like proof

Do you know where she got the info from?

Was about to ask this myself.

[Tatzel]

I thought it was obvious that there is wolf in the ANCD? I mean just look at the build and all, it screams wolf to me all over lol. Also the poofy fur and the tiny eyes.

[TerriHolt]

It is impossible to say whether there is or there isn't with some sort of proof.
Before everything came out with Lynn, i'd have believed the breeder...
Now... I think there could be but I don't know so i'm not going to make any judgments. There is a huge difference between thinking something and knowing facts.
If people go round saying there is this, that and t'other in the breed when there genuinely isn't, it could to the breeder a lot of harm... If it is there, then it will be found out, with proof, eventually.
If there is, I wish the breeder would come out and own up to it because cover up's annoy me and make the breed along with he breeder untrust worthy
Over lynn's lies, we seem to have lost a few good forum members.

[HiTenshi16]

I thought it was obvious that there is wolf in the ANCD? I mean just look at the build and all, it screams wolf to me all over lol. Also the poofy fur and the tiny eyes.

After meeting Noque, I'm not convinced that there is wolf in him. But, even if there was, he would be as low content as some Tamaskan (like Summer or Skye). As far as looking the part, they are a wolf look alike breed are they not?

With the breeds used to create the ANCD, I'm not all convinced that she didn't use wolf either. I would not mind if there was wolf content in the breed, just wish the breeder would be honest about it and not get so mad each time someone asks her about it.

I guess you can say I want to believe that there is not any wolf in the breed, but I'm still skeptical. Hopefully when someone does the UC Davis test (which even that I don't have much confidence in) on a few dogs it can put everyone's mind to rest about the topic.

I still would like to know where and how some get their information from claiming that wolfdogs were used. I only take the "he said she said" kind of information with a grain of salt.

[Tiantai]

Ann did tell me that some of the dogs she used might have been other pet owners' accidents sold to her. Unfortunately I emailed her with my Seneca email account which she responded to and due to having graduated from that school and out of there for a year now I can no longer log back in to pull that email that was sent to me. Plus I would be disrespecting Ann if I copied and pasted that here since most emails are usually considered private message.

[martinbernstein]

I wish forum members would try getting into the habit of posting proof (or something resembling it) along with assertions and anecdotes. This may all be true, but it may all be completely false.

Regardless, does it matter whether there is wolf in them? Ann isn't marketing her dogs as 'wolf dogs without the wolf'.

[HiTenshi16]

I wish forum members would try getting into the habit of posting proof (or something resembling it) along with assertions and anecdotes. This may all be true, but it may all be completely false.

Regardless, does it matter whether there is wolf in them? Ann isn't marketing her dogs as 'wolf dogs without the wolf'.

I agree, I want to see something that is proof rather than hearsay.
As for wether it matters or not, Ann has said that there was no wolf in them so if it turns out that there is, then she would still be lying about what she is selling.

[Tiantai]

I wish forum members would try getting into the habit of posting proof (or something resembling it) along with assertions and anecdotes. This may all be true, but it may all be completely false.

Regardless, does it matter whether there is wolf in them? Ann isn't marketing her dogs as 'wolf dogs without the wolf'.

I agree, I want to see something that is proof rather than hearsay.
As for wether it matters or not, Ann has said that there was no wolf in them so if it turns out that there is, then she would still be lying about what she is selling.

I agree with both of you. But Dresselhaus did tell me that some of those dogs she bought off and used weren't exactly purebred but apparently crossbreeds of each other and that she is unsure about the full background of some of the original dogs, particularly those that she suspects may have been from accidents. So while I don't know if there is wolf in that breed, I don't really care if there is either as long as they are healthy and have the desired temperament that people are looking for. But I wouldn't paint Dresselhaus on the same brush as the Blu duo just yet nor would I rule out the possibility that maybe she was unaware of any possible wolf-contents in her original dogs assuming IF there is wolf. Sometimes people make mistakes like getting a mutt that looks and acts like a dog for the most part. I've spoken with owners of floppy-eared mutts on youtube before who told me that they were shocked when they did some investigations on the background of their dogs and discovered some wolfdogs in the genepool. If someone tests their dog with the UC Davis and the dog turns out to have wolf in it, I'd like to see the result and Dresselhaus' opinion as I'm sure it would be presented to her as something to question on. But even then I wouldn't label her as a liar just yet. She may not have known and if that be the case I'm sure she would be shocked. So far I have not seen anything to suggest that Dresselhaus is lying like the Blu breeders did although admittedly I DO question her story including the one she told me.

[Katlin]

[
I agree, I want to see something that is proof rather than hearsay.

Seconded

[Tatzel]

I wish forum members would try getting into the habit of posting proof (or something resembling it) along with assertions and anecdotes. This may all be true, but it may all be completely false.

Regardless, does it matter whether there is wolf in them? Ann isn't marketing her dogs as 'wolf dogs without the wolf'.

I think NOT disclosing that there is wolf in the breed (is there is any it it, that is) isn't much different from lying. It's still being dishonest about the breed's origin.

I personally couldn't care less wether there is wolf in the breed or not, but future owners might have their problems with that for a multitude of reasons, and also wolfdogs are illegal in some states/places, no matter the content.

It's just irresponsible imo.
And again, I find them to be extremely wolfy looking, even in solid black, more so than Tams actually.

[TerriHolt]

And again, I find them to be extremely wolfy looking, even in solid black, more so than Tams actually.

Which is why i'm skeptical because we know it exists in Tams and the ANCD just happen to look more wolfy? But without proof you can't say one way or the other. Speculation won't help no one. No body who owns one willing to test? (i'm still undecided on this as well since it could still produce a false neg).

I hope the breeder isn't lying (surely there can't be 2 lynn's ), but if she is lying then it will come to light eventually (hopefully no dogs will suffer for it).

Just to add, i'd be skeptical of anything right now... Before the whole lynn thing, i'd have believed anything coming from breeders... But after that, i require proof from anyone who says anything that can be proven... Ie, "there is wolf in those dogs".
Been skeptical seems to be a safe bet (shame it's come to this but still...

[Kootenaywolf]

I would do the test on Yarrow, I just never seem to have the extra money to do so (I just don't care very much either way, aslo). I think Katelyn is planning to test Noque though?

[Tiantai]

I did notice in the photo of Noque sitting next to Zephyr, Noque looks more wolfish than the Tamaskan. Even though Zephyr has some known wolfdog heritages tracing further back through his Czechoslovakian Vlcak ancestry from the background of Oskari (Oxbow Leva-Neve). While, once again, I don't know if there is wolf in Noque until someone posts a UC Davis test result that says there is then I will stand on the neutral line.

The good news is at least the confusions with the Noble Pawz wolfdogs have subsided. As far as I know, the Noble Pawz dogs ARE wolfdogs and the breeder himself admits it. The only ANCD he owns is Wicca but all the other dogs look like upper-mid content wolfdogs. I don't know if he had bred Wicca with any of them though.

[Lynwae]

Even if wolfdogs were obviously used to make the ANCD, they are some very low content wolfdogs. And the breeder is working a lot to socialize the pups, with only one litter at a time. So no, even if she lied, there is no harm done and she isn't a second Lynn.

[AZDehlin]

I am not entirely convinced there is wolf behind the ANCD show me documented proof... I can see the German Shepherd influence as well as the Grey Hound and Great Pyrenees as well as a handful of arctic breeds behind my Noque. I will have Noque tested when I am ready I have yet to send in a request to the TDR about using him depending on his tests.

[Kootenaywolf]

Even if wolfdogs were obviously used to make the ANCD, they are some very low content wolfdogs. And the breeder is working a lot to socialize the pups, with only one litter at a time. So no, even if she lied, there is no harm done and she isn't a second Lynn.

Yeah! I was going to say that as well. Lynn had a huge list of things she did all wrong and lied about, so even if it turned out there was wolf in the ANCD, it still wouldn't make her another Lynn. Though of course lying about anything is not ideal.

[martinbernstein]

I think Lynn's main offense was that she marketed the Tamaskan breed as a wolfy-looking dog with a dog's personality and temperament. As many of us know, that is quite misleading and many buyers got dogs that were quite unbalanced and much more than they could handle. That's what happens when breeders select for appearance over temperament and health.

I've never met an ANCD, but from my correspondence with Ann, and the videos she posts regularly, it seems that she has a much healthier and well-rounded breeding program that produces much more even-keeled dogs. Whether or not she knowingly used wolf content dogs is a different story, but of she did, she seems to have used dogs with good temperaments.

Is this your experience ANCD owners?

[arianwenarie]

I think Lynn's main offense was that she marketed the Tamaskan breed as a wolfy-looking dog with a dog's personality and temperament. As many of us know, that is quite misleading and many buyers got dogs that were quite unbalanced and much more than they could handle. That's what happens when breeders select for appearance over temperament and health.

I've never met an ANCD, but from my correspondence with Ann, and the videos she posts regularly, it seems that she has a much healthier and well-rounded breeding program that produces much more even-keeled dogs. Whether or not she knowingly used wolf content dogs is a different story, but of she did, she seems to have used dogs with good temperaments.

Is this your experience ANCD owners?

Agreed. My email correspondence with Ann reflects the same as your experience, martin. Just wondering what the experience of ANCD owners are...if they would be so kind to chime in?

[Kootenaywolf]

I've never met an ANCD, but from my correspondence with Ann, and the videos she posts regularly, it seems that she has a much healthier and well-rounded breeding program that produces much more even-keeled dogs. Whether or not she knowingly used wolf content dogs is a different story, but of she did, she seems to have used dogs with good temperaments.

Is this your experience ANCD owners?

I do think that Ann has tried to breed firstly for temperament, and insists on all breeding stock being titled, at least with a CGC.

Yarrow hasn't been quite what I hoped for temperamentally, unfortunately, though of course I love him anyway. He is definitely challenging in certain ways. I do think that many other ANCDs don't have some of the issues that he has.

[Cornelia1986]

I've never met an ANCD, but from my correspondence with Ann, and the videos she posts regularly, it seems that she has a much healthier and well-rounded breeding program that produces much more even-keeled dogs. Whether or not she knowingly used wolf content dogs is a different story, but of she did, she seems to have used dogs with good temperaments.

Is this your experience ANCD owners?

I do think that Ann has tried to breed firstly for temperament, and insists on all breeding stock being titled, at least with a CGC.

Yarrow hasn't been quite what I hoped for temperamentally, unfortunately, though of course I love him anyway. He is definitely challenging in certain ways. I do think that many other ANCDs don't have some of the issues that he has.

What issues does he have?

[Kootenaywolf]

What issues does he have?

He is extremely shy with people he doesn't know, so I can't really have him out in public places, and this is despite extensive socialization. He is selective about what dogs he likes now that he's hitting maturity. He is also quite independent, he doesn't have quite the drive/biddability that I had hoped he might. He's incredibly intelligent, but it can be challenging to engage him in training.

That being said, he is still a wonderful dog, I adore him and he is super sweet and loving. He would be very challenging for your average owner, though.

[Tiantai]

How long does it takes for Yarrow to get used to strange people?

[Kootenaywolf]

How long does it takes for Yarrow to get used to strange people?

Depends. Women are easier for him than men. Say someone is staying at our house - for the first day or two, Yarrow will hide upstairs. Within a few days generally he will start at least making appearances, or hanging out in the same room as them. Any movement toward him, eye contact, or speaking to him will send him fleeing. For some people he will graduate to being able to be petted/interacted with around a week or so, but for some it takes longer. Certain men he never seems to completely warm up to.

My close friends and family he has totally accepted and is extremely loving towards, it just takes him a while to get there with people.

[martinbernstein]

That sounds pretty extreme. My tam girl was like that for a few months after I got her but something happened when I got a second dog- suddenly she couldn't get enough attention from people. Even from strangers. She went from being extremely shy to unusually affectionate almost over night.

Anyway, Yarrow sounds like a lot to handle for regular dog owners. Good thing you're not a regular dog owner!

[Tiantai]

Good thing you're not a regular dog owner!

[TerriHolt]

Even if wolfdogs were obviously used to make the ANCD, they are some very low content wolfdogs. And the breeder is working a lot to socialize the pups, with only one litter at a time. So no, even if she lied, there is no harm done and she isn't a second Lynn.

Yeah! I was going to say that as well. Lynn had a huge list of things she did all wrong and lied about, so even if it turned out there was wolf in the ANCD, it still wouldn't make her another Lynn. Though of course lying about anything is not ideal.

I say that because if she hadn't have lied about it to start with and marketed a 'wolfdog without the wolf', i'd never have got involved with the breed. The fact is, lying about this is taking the decision away from the potential owner.
With the other wolfdog breeds, you have a choice because all facts are known. I want a few people to do the test before i buy one just for the sake of knowing.

I didn't mean it in respect to all the other lies lynn told, no one can match those...

[Fenris]

Finally proof that there is wolf in the ANCD?
From Cindy at Sybil's Den. (http://www.raskbb.com/sybilsden/viewtop ... 7&start=60)

Info found out on the ancd line

"Xena is a wolfdog bred by Karen Evans of Wichita Falls, TX. Her parents were Ladyhawke and Nighthawke 2, bred by Lynn Williams of Howling Hills Kennel in NH. Xena's % is around 65% .

Xena was not the only wolfdog in the ANCD foundation stock. Apollo was an F3, aprox 30% wolfdog, son of Luna. Luna was an F2, 44% wolfdog from a Siberian Husky bred with an 87.5% arctic wolf/Great Pyrenees litter. I do not remember who Luna's breeder was but her wolfdog parent was bred by Linda Wenger in CA. It was out of a 3/4 wolf 1/4 Great Pyrenees female bred with Ice Warrior, a pure arctic wolf from Rick Halvorson. Ice Warrior was a well known wolf in the 1980's who appeared in several movies and publications.

Luna was going to be bred to her son Apollo in 1998, but it never happened, probably because she was too old."

I'll also try to track down video I saw of the black dogs running with fully sickled tails to show that they are not mid content wolfdogs, as claimed here.

We should all also keep in mind that Karlie Ellis' AKC husky's Davis test results came back as positive for wolf content as well.

[Tiantai]

A few things bother me about this post

Info found out on the ancd line

"Xena is a wolfdog bred by Karen Evans of Wichita Falls, TX. Her parents were Ladyhawke and Nighthawke 2, bred by Lynn Williams of Howling Hills Kennel in NH. Xena's % is around 65% .

Xena was not the only wolfdog in the ANCD foundation stock. Apollo was an F3, aprox 30% wolfdog, son of Luna. Luna was an F2, 44% wolfdog from a Siberian Husky bred with an 87.5% arctic wolf/Great Pyrenees litter.

I do not remember who Luna's breeder was but her wolfdog parent was bred by Linda Wenger in CA. It was out of a 3/4 wolf 1/4 Great Pyrenees female bred with Ice Warrior, a pure arctic wolf from Rick Halvorson. Ice Warrior was a well known wolf in the 1980's who appeared in several movies and publications.

Luna was going to be bred to her son Apollo in 1998, but it never happened, probably because she was too old."

First of all, where the world did the 87.5% number come from? When estimating wolf-content people don't normally put decimals, it's usually full numbers. Not to sound rude, though this number looks a bit random to me. Just my opinion of course, I am trying to start a fight with Cindy whom I look up to as a true wolfdog expert. But unless someone can post a photo of that said Arctic wolf, I'm not sure if the wolf was actually of the Arctic subspecies. How do they know that the wolf in the background is an Arctic wolf? Although Arctic wolfdog crosses do exist, most of the time many cream-coloured wolfdogs are the result of breeding with a White German Shepherd.

But that leads to my next question, why would someone want to breed an Arctic wolf to a Great Pyrenese? Plus if Luna was an F2 from such a line assuming if that story is true and that there was some backcrossing with another pure Arctic wolf then shouldn't Apollo look much more wolfish like the wolfdog Valko? Cuz when I look at his photo, he seem more doggy-ish while Valko looked more like a legitimate lower-mid content wolfdog.

Anyway, these are just my opinions and questions over those posts. But until I see an actual UC Davis paper confirming the existence of wolf-content in one of the current ANCD, I will keep these info in my "maybe there is, maybe not" memory box.

[Fenris]

A few things bother me about this post

Info found out on the ancd line

"Xena is a wolfdog bred by Karen Evans of Wichita Falls, TX. Her parents were Ladyhawke and Nighthawke 2, bred by Lynn Williams of Howling Hills Kennel in NH. Xena's % is around 65% .

Xena was not the only wolfdog in the ANCD foundation stock. Apollo was an F3, aprox 30% wolfdog, son of Luna. Luna was an F2, 44% wolfdog from a Siberian Husky bred with an 87.5% arctic wolf/Great Pyrenees litter.

I do not remember who Luna's breeder was but her wolfdog parent was bred by Linda Wenger in CA. It was out of a 3/4 wolf 1/4 Great Pyrenees female bred with Ice Warrior, a pure arctic wolf from Rick Halvorson. Ice Warrior was a well known wolf in the 1980's who appeared in several movies and publications.

Luna was going to be bred to her son Apollo in 1998, but it never happened, probably because she was too old."

First of all, where the world did the 87.5% number come from? When estimating wolf-content people don't normally put decimals, it's usually full numbers. Not to sound rude, though this number looks a bit random to me. Just my opinion of course, I am trying to start a fight with Cindy whom I look up to as a true wolfdog expert. But unless someone can post a photo of that said Arctic wolf, I'm not sure if the wolf was actually of the Arctic subspecies. How do they know that the wolf in the background is an Arctic wolf? Although Arctic wolfdog crosses do exist, most of the time many cream-coloured wolfdogs are the result of breeding with a White German Shepherd.

But that leads to my next question, why would someone want to breed an Arctic wolf to a Great Pyrenese? Plus if Luna was an F2 from such a line assuming if that story is true and that there was some backcrossing with another pure Arctic wolf then shouldn't Apollo look much more wolfish like the wolfdog Valko? Cuz when I look at his photo, he seem more doggy-ish while Valko looked more like a legitimate lower-mid content wolfdog.

Anyway, these are just my opinions and questions over those posts. But until I see an actual UC Davis paper confirming the existence of wolf-content in one of the current ANCD, I will keep these info in my "maybe there is, maybe not" memory box.

Great Pyrenees is somewhat common in Arctic crosses. Jeff Begeman has some GP in his lines, or so I understand. I think Cindy has a Begeman dog, and so would have some GP too.

[Sylvaen]

We should all also keep in mind that Karlie Ellis' AKC husky's Davis test results came back as positive for wolf content as well.

Can you provide some evidence for this? I've never heard of a purebred husky testing positive for wolf content, though I do know of some "AKC German Shepherds" that are anything but purebred...

[Katlin]

Thank you for sharing, but this seems anything but concrete without evidence.

[Tiantai]

*NOT trying to start a fight with Cindy. looks like my brain went fast than my fingers