NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

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NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by Blustag » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:47 pm

Hey Guys... here is something for you to debate over as I would be interested in getting all your views.

NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS. I ask everyone for a non-refundable deposit This means that if you cancel you dont get your money back. Reason being is that I have a waiting list for my puppies and everyone is screened thoroughly before they get put on the list. They only get put on the list once I am completely happy with all the circumstances, and they are also happy with the fact that the deposit gets them on my list, and it is non-refundable should they change their mind.
I spend a lot of time and effort screening and it is time consuming believe me. There are some of you out there who have actually helped with my screening ;) Also I dont breed until I have a minimum set number of folk on my actual list as I dont want puppy overload ;) It also helps to know just how many people are interested in my puppies, and that they honestly do want one and have perhaps waited quite some time on my list. If I was not to take a deposit OR give back deposits when people change their mind (this is extremely rare) there would hardly be a reason for me to have a waiting list. I could breed my dogs and then find people backing out at the last minute, and I am left with puppies on my hands. Advertising in local or national newspapers is HUGELY expensive here in UK and I certainly wouldnt want to be going down that road. I do believe that people coming through our websites are far more likely to have done lots of research and do genuinely want a puppy.... What do you guys think, should deposits be returned when people change their minds, when they have been notified that they are non-returnable when they were asked for them? This isnt happening to me just I was chatting with someone about this the other day and thought I would put it to our forum users.

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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by Misaya » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:04 pm

Well if it has been specified that deposits are non-refundable and the prospective purchasers were still happy to go ahead and pay it they can hardly expect to get it back.
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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by MoirAran » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:10 pm

Not-refundable!
I think you can already select by this non-refundable deposit. So you know the people who put down a deposit are serious.

If people know they get their money back, my guess is your waiting list will be much longer :mrgreen: with non-serious interested people
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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by Rahne » Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:44 pm

I also wouldn't return if the owner changes his/her mind. Then there is no point to pay a deposit if people can get it back at any time.

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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by Nino » Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:10 pm

I think non-refundable deposits are a very good idea. It will automatically keep some non-serious people from depositing.

Personally it's cheaper for me to pay the whole thing at the same time though :lol:
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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by HiTenshi16 » Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:21 pm

I really do like the idea of the non-refundable deposit for serious future puppy adopters. My only wonder is what if that future puppy adoptee has something unexpected come up, like if they were to loose their job or maybe lost their home in some sort of disaster? Though I'm sure those situations are not likely to happen, but would they still then not be able to get their deposit back?
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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by claireyclaire » Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:29 pm

I think that having a non-refundable deposits probably stop time wasters and if people are serious about having a puppy then they understand the rules
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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by blufawn » Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:18 pm

Totally agree, refunds should always be non-returnable and they really do weed out the non-serious browsers from the commited owners.
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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by Amy » Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:13 pm

hello everybody

I would only give back payments to illness, death of the purchaser or to members of similar important reasons. Not for people who have brought a different dog, do not feel like more,or other unimportant reasons. We have a waiting list and a deposit. The puppy buyers get a presales contract are listed in all the important points. Buyers must sign the contract in advance

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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by wicca1 » Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:38 pm

i totally agree deposits should be none refundable, hopefully only responsible people will ask about a puppy if they have to pay a deposit first.

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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by JulieSmith » Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:24 pm

I have no problem with non-refundable deposits if the purchaser changes their mind, you loose the deposit, simple. The only problem I had was what would happen if the breeder could not supply a puppy? I suppose if they have more than one breeding dog then they should be OK, but if they only have one and something happened then the deposit should either be refundable or passed onto another breeder of the buyers choice. Just my thought.

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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by Blustag » Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:12 pm

I was just referring to my waiting list. All potential puppy purchasers are put on the list for the next available litter. If not enough puppies then they move up the list for the next litter and so on. OR they actually state what year, or time of year they would like a puppy. Everyone knows about the list and I work in datal order of when they book as to allocation of puppy. Some people in the past have been on my list for well over a year and in one case for USA 2 yrs. They were never ready so they remained at the very top of the list until they were. Now they have their puppy.

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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by Sylvaen » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:43 am

I essentially agree with what everyone else has already said: Non-Refundable means NON-REFUNDABLE. period. A deposit wouldn't mean much if it could be cancelled and returned at any time; it just doesn't work like that!
Blustag wrote:I have a waiting list for my puppies and everyone is screened thoroughly before they get put on the list. They only get put on the list once I am completely happy with all the circumstances, and they are also happy with the fact that the deposit gets them on my list, and it is non-refundable should they change their mind.
I use the exact same system. The only difference is, that since I only have 1 female, I take down a waiting list but then I *only* start asking for deposits once the vet has confirmed (by ultrasound) that pups actually ARE on the way. Otherwise I would just disappoint a lot of people if there were no pups. Since Vixen just had her first litter (and I wasn't 100% certain that she was fertile, as she'd been bred in the past without results) I wanted to make absolutely certain that she was pregnant, otherwise I'd just have to return all the deposits. In the future, when I have another breeding female, I'd probably stick to the same system (build up a waiting list for each litter, but only accept deposits once pups are on the way)... the only event that I would ever return a deposit would be if they SPECIFICALLY wanted a puppy from a particular mating and either something happened to the litter or one of the parents, whereby either all the pups died or one of the parents, thereby ensuring that they'd never get the puppy they actually want. But I don't expect this to ever actually happen in reality - it's just something I keep in mind, just in case.
Blustag wrote:I spend a lot of time and effort screening and it is time consuming believe me. There are some of you out there who have actually helped with my screening ;)
Screening is incredibly time-consuming. I get soooo many emails and have to go through them all, sorting out which ones might be suitable and which ones are an absolute: "NO". Out of every 5 emails enquiring about puppies, I'd say only around 1-2 (on average) are actually serious AND have the time / capability / finances / lifestyle / living conditions for a Tamaskan puppy.
Blustag wrote:Also I dont breed until I have a minimum set number of folk on my actual list as I dont want puppy overload ;) It also helps to know just how many people are interested in my puppies, and that they honestly do want one and have perhaps waited quite some time on my list.
This is a very good idea for any breeder. Even with only 1 female, that could still result in anywhere from 4-10 pups that need homes. Even with just 5 pups, I had a last-minute cancellation (due to the future owner's bad health) and, as a result, ended up with a spare pup that needed rehoming - though I'd only kept a short waiting list that accounted for each of the 5 pups... in the future, I'll definitely keep a "spare" waiting list, in case of any cancellations. As the saying goes: "don't count your chickens until they hatch" because you never know what might happen.
Blustag wrote:Advertising in local or national newspapers is HUGELY expensive here in UK and I certainly wouldnt want to be going down that road. I do believe that people coming through our websites are far more likely to have done lots of research and do genuinely want a puppy....
I did advertise my litter with an online website here, to see if there was any local interest, since I really wanted my pups to stay nearby (where I could visit occasionally) - however, aside from one or two emails, only one pup actually stayed here in Croatia. The rest went throughout Europe and the people had all contacted me via either my website, this forum, or the Tamaskan Facebook groups / pages. So, they were all well-informed about the breed and knew what to expect (and could provide great homes) - so this, to me, was much more important. I'd rather have the pups go to the perfect "far away" home, than stay nearby in an inadequate living situation.
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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by Molly » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:54 pm

In France the legislation is trés clear :

If the reservation of a puppy is made on the basis of a payment as "Arrhes" (en Français) , the buyer can give up his reservation, he loses the totality of the paid amount

On the other hand, if the breeder decides any more not to sell, he will have to pay the double of the sums paid by the buyer to disengage from the contract of reservation

If the reservation of the puppy is made in "Acompte" (en français) 2 parts (salesman / buyer) are definitively connected and cannot get free of their contract of reservation one to another

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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by Nino » Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:48 am

Molly wrote:if the breeder decides any more not to sell, he will have to pay the double of the sums paid by the buyer to disengage from the contract of reservation
Wow.. Double?
I think thats a little crazy.. I can understand a full refund but a double refund? :|
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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by JulieSmith » Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:50 pm

I suppose it stops them backing out for no reason

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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by Gaby » Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:31 pm

Non-refundable, because a deposit isn't usefull at all if you can get it back at all times.
Blustag wrote: OR they actually state what year, or time of year they would like a puppy. Everyone knows about the list and I work in datal order of when they book as to allocation of puppy. Some people in the past have been on my list for well over a year.
:mrgreen: ;)

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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by Nino » Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:43 pm

Gaby wrote:Non-refundable, because a deposit isn't usefull at all if you can get it back at all times.
I agree..
On a danish dog forum I'm on there is a debate about this.. because a person who put a deposit didn't want the puppy anyways and now want the money back and is slandering the seller because she worn't pay it back :?
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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by Wave2Tuffy » Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:46 am

I think, overall, non-refundable is the way to go BUT there are different circumstances that should be individually evaluated.

In example...if you think you will have 3 litters & only have 2? If someone, wants a pup now, and you can't deliver because you had 2 litters instead of 3, should you pass them on to a current litter available AND their deposit?

Just a thought..........

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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by blufawn » Sat Dec 04, 2010 9:59 am

Yes, deposits should be refunded if the reason the 'interested party' didnt get a puppy was the fault of the breeder.
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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by TeresaC » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:30 am

I agree that a non-refundable deposit should not be returned. This is an important step to weed out those who are not fully committed to a puppy but want to be on a list just in case they are ready when a litter is born. It takes time for the breeder to screen and find appropriate homes.

With that said, there is always room for individual circumstances. The breeder stops breeding...the deposit should be returned. Or even maybe in some personal situations, a death, lose the house to fire, etc. Again, individual evaluation at the discretion of the breeder. I know that a non-refundable deposit made me think long and hard. No impulse decisions here :D
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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by Tameden » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:45 pm

When should I request to be put on a waiting list if I am looking for a puppy in July next year? I am happy to put down a deposit or pay full up front?

Who is best to approach and how should I do this? What is the price of a tamaskan?

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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by AZDehlin » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:23 am

Tameden wrote:When should I request to be put on a waiting list if I am looking for a puppy in July next year? I am happy to put down a deposit or pay full up front?

Who is best to approach and how should I do this? What is the price of a tamaskan?
I would get on the list a soon as possible, just cause the list can get long.

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Non refundable deposits

Post by Rahne » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:29 am

I recently noticed some nasty disputes again, subject being non-refundable deposits. I thought I should give my 2 cents on the matter (sorry prepare for a novel lol) ;)

It's common for Tamaskan breeders to ask for a non-refundable deposit before placing on the breeders waiting list. The reasoning seems to make sense, to protect the breeder against puppy buyers who seem serious but then when pups are born decide not to go trough with the sale, thus leaving the breeder with the pup that could have been sold to someone else. Some breeders will tell pup buyers to pay a deposit ASAP otherwise they might miss out on a pup and they would have to wait for a long time.

In theory this all sounds nice but in reality this could cause very frustrating situations, mostly for the pup buyer. First of all, in what circumstances is the deposit non-refundable? What will happen if I pay my deposit for a pup and something goes wrong and the bitch doesn't get pregnant? Will I get my money back? The breeder might tell me to wait for a next litter, maybe from a different combination.. but what if the breeder only has one bitch? Or what if I really don't like those other combinations? In many cases this is not clear, the breeder will decide whether or not to give your deposit back or keep it. So the first important point, IF you do ask for deposits as a breeders OR as pup buyer pay a deposit to a breeder then make sure there's a contract that's signed by both parties that clearly defines the circumstances when the deposit is non-refundable and when it isn't.

Is the current situation fair? I pay a deposit for a pup to a breeder and they tell me they expect a litter the coming year... I wait but the female doesn't go into season so my expected pup is delayed by another year. Finally she is in season and the breeder mates her but sadly she doesn't get pregnant so again I will have to wait another year. In the mean time there are some very nice other Tamaskan litters, pups still available. I would really like to get a pup from one of those other litters now, I really do not want to wait another full year... timing is ideal right now for me. I contact the breeder and ask if I can get my deposit back as I rather get a pup now from a different litter. They tell me sorry, it's non-refundable so you have to wait or take your loss. Is that fair to the pup buyer??

Another situation.. I paid a deposit a while back and now found out some horrific things about the breeder I paid my deposit to so I rather not get a pup from that breeder anymore! But I won't get my deposit back, it's non-refundable... so do I take my loss or still get a pup from this breeder even if I rather not too? hmm, I don't really want to loose my money either. (PS, I have been in this situation myself recently... I had not gotten a pup from a certain breeder if it wasn't for the fact the breeder already had a 600 euros deposit from me that I had paid almost 2 years before when I was planning on getting another dog but that didn't went trough).

What I'm getting at with this is that whenever you as a breeder ask for a non-refundable deposit you are basically 'forcing' puppy buyers to stick with you whatever the circumstances, if they in the mean time decide they want to go somewhere else they can't as they will loose their deposit. Some people might do the 'sensible' thing and take the loss but others can not afford to loose their deposit.

Now I decided for myself some time ago that I'm not going to ask for deposits until pups are actually born (and I noticed some other Tamaskan breeders have recently decided to do the same). I want people to be able to change their minds at any time without having to worry about loosing a deposit... I had planned to breed Konah last spring but due to circumstances this won't happen until next year spring. I had send everyone on my waiting list an email telling them about this and also said if you want a pup sooner then later there's a litter in Bulgaria just born, pups still available and also a litter planned shortly in Croatia. Some people said they would wait, one family got a Saxon pup (will still get a Konah pup next year too) and two Quicksilver pups now live in the Netherlands :)

Another thing I noticed is mentioning breeders asking for a deposit to cover the cost of breeding before hand. DON'T DO THIS! Imagine worst case scenario, you are a first time breeder and have 10 people on your waiting list and gotten deposits from them.. you buy all the necessary things for breeding like a whelping box, puppy pen etc. (for a first time litter you need to spend a lot of money before hand!) and pay all of this with the deposits. The day of birth, something goes horribly wrong and your bitch needs surgery.. she pulls trough but will never be able to get pups again and even worse, all of the current pups didn't make it. You are going to have to deal with people who will want their deposit back as they didn't get what they paid for, a pup. How are you going to pay it back when you have spend all that money before hand?? Seriously, if you want to breed a litter then SAVE MONEY! IF you do ask for deposits then do NOT use them before the whole transaction is completed and the buyer has their pup.

In my opinion when it comes to asking non-refundable deposits (before confirmed pregnancy) the chance that the pup buyer looses out is a lot higher then the breeder loosing out... As a breeder make sure you have a large waiting list, so if people do drop out you still have enough good owners left to take a pup. If you don't have enough interest then don't breed! Wait another year or so until there is enough interest.

Last note, this post is not directed towards anyone in particular and I would appreciate if other people responding to this post don't go calling out on breeders. I wanted to make a general note directed towards everyone to think about the whole non-refundable deposit situation. I'm also not meaning to say that asking non-refundable deposits is a bad thing, but it can lead to a lot of nastiness, so it's important that the conditions are very clear to all parties involved (written and signed on paper).

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Re: Non refundable deposits

Post by Misaya » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:33 am

Good post Rahne :)
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Re: Non refundable deposits

Post by TerriHolt » Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:12 am

This is something i have been mulling over the past few days and you have saved me a lot of breeder pm'ing :D ... I think it is the best idea to only ask for a nonrefundable deposit once pregnancy is confirmed and keeping those deposits until the full balance has been paid for in the eventuality something goes horribly wrong and you need to make sure you can give the people their deposit back...
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Re: Non refundable deposits

Post by Sylvaen » Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:24 pm

I never accept monetary deposits in advance. By advance, I mean: if a litter is only 'planned' or before the mating has taken place. Circumstances can rapidly change and, with nature, there is just too much potential that things won't go as planned (silent heats, skipped seasons, infertility, wrong timing, miscarriage, whelping problems, cesarean section, death shortly after birth, etc). Also, unforeseen events could pop up in the lives of both the breeder AND the potential new owner: hospitalization, serious illness, family issues, change in job, suddenly having to move to a new house, etc etc etc. For any number of reasons, a litter might be canceled or the new owner might not be able to take a puppy after all. If this all happens before the mating takes place, then that's the end of the story - unless money has already exchanged hands! As soon as money is involved, it can turn nasty if unforeseen scenarios arise.

Instead, I screen people and build up a solid waiting list all year round: I currently have 18 people on my waiting list for my next 4 litters (Autumn 2012, Spring 2013, and 2 potential litters in Autumn 2013 if Zora gets a good hip score). Some people are also on waiting lists with other breeders, which is fine with me, so that they can decide which litter / puppy would be right for them... or perhaps my female, or the other breeder's female, won't get pregnant. At least they have a backup plan. Some people might change their minds or wait until a later litter, which is also OK with me. I don't have many dogs (2 breeding females and 2 potential breeding females) and each female will only have one litter per year, and I will never have more than 2 litters at the same time, so there is no need for me to have a huuuuuge waiting list in advance. As long as I have enough interest for each litter (at least 6 people who definitely want puppies) then that litter will go ahead as planned... if there are not enough puppies born (4-5 instead of 6) then obviously some people will miss out. Conversely, if there are too many puppies (8-10 instead of 6) then with a solid waiting list at least you only have to worry about finding homes for a couple of puppies (2-4) rather than a lot of puppies (all 8-10) if you have no waiting list in advance.

As far as monetary deposits, I always wait until pregnancy is confirmed and ONLY then will I accept a couple of deposits from people who have been waiting a long time and absolutely definitely want a puppy from that litter (usually I will only accept 2-4 deposits, for 1-2 male pups and 1-2 female pups) and then I wait until the litter is born to see exactly how many pups there are and what ratio of males to females, and then I contact everyone else on my waiting list to let them know. From confirmed pregnancy until the time when the pups are born, I consider those deposits 'refundable' (as in, if something goes wrong and I can't uphold my end of the deal, then I have to return those deposits, which is another reason why I don't accept many deposits and also because you never know if you will have an all-female or all-male litter and particular owners ONLY want a female OR a male.) Once the pups are born and I have reserved particular puppies for specific people (based on their preferences for gender and color) then I consider those deposits 'non-refundable' - if a particular puppy is on hold for someone, and they then back out of their end of the deal (for whatever reason) they will not get their deposit back. I can't have people reserving puppies (meaning that other people will miss out) and then changing their minds at the last minute. They have to be certain about getting a puppy and serious about the decision they make, since a puppy is a big responsibility, not a spur-of-the-moment impulse.
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Re: Non refundable deposits

Post by Taz » Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:56 pm

I've never been asked to pay a deposit on a pup, non refundable or not. Whilst I understand the logic in asking, it's only within the wolf look alike breeds that it seems to be common practice, I'm not entirely sure it sits well with me. As a puppy buyer and customer, I'd like to reserve the right to refuse a pup from any litter if I feel none are suited to me, without having to factor in financial loss. After all, I'm going to have to live with the dog for 10 years or more, I want to make the right choice and after researching breeds, finding the right breeder, with the right dogs, I don't see why it should cost me if after all that, the litter doesn't have what I'm looking for and by that I mean temperament, could be the right gender, colour, etc, if the personality doesn't jell, I won't be taking one it's that simple, as that is my number one priority.
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Re: Non refundable deposits

Post by Nino » Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:19 pm

Taz wrote:I've never been asked to pay a deposit on a pup, non refundable or not. Whilst I understand the logic in asking, it's only within the wolf look alike breeds that it seems to be common practice, I'm not entirely sure it sits well with me.
Taking Deposits for puppies is a very common practice not only within wolf look alike breeds, I see it every day with all sorts of breeds and even mixes, the common factor being though that the pups are already born when deposits are put down.

I personally won't be needing this for a couple of years at least (the plan of becoming a registered breeder next year didn't go through because of poor hip results) but I have already decided upon how I am going to set the deposit part of it up.
I am going to make a contract on the what's and when's of the deposit, which is going to include (not necessarily in that order):
When deposit have to be paid.
Where the deposit has to be paid too.
What the amount the deposit is, and how much the full amount of the puppy will be.
Under which clauses the breeder (me) can choose to discontinue the agreement and what this means; giving back the deposit would be the obvious thing here. - by law here putting down a deposit means that the seller is obliged to hold op his end of the deal (in this end that would mean supply a dog), unless there is a contract with a clause stating otherwise.
Under which clauses the buyer can choose to discontinue the agreement and what this means; when the buyer is entitled to have his deposit returned - this could be in the cases where the breeder proves unable to hand over a "product" to the value of which the deposit represents or it could be in cases where the buyer becomes aware of "faults" that the seller (breeder) have not given correct information (to the knowledge of the seller) or deliberately concealed vital information that would have made the buyer not choose to buy from said Seller/Mating
In which cases where the Buyer is not entitled to get back his deposit; eg. if the Buyer decides not to get a puppy after having paid the deposit, but this without any fault of the Sellers.
Etc.
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Re: Non refundable deposits

Post by Taz » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:56 pm

Nino wrote:
Taz wrote:I've never been asked to pay a deposit on a pup, non refundable or not. Whilst I understand the logic in asking, it's only within the wolf look alike breeds that it seems to be common practice, I'm not entirely sure it sits well with me.
Taking Deposits for puppies is a very common practice not only within wolf look alike breeds, I see it every day with all sorts of breeds and even mixes, the common factor being though that the pups are already born when deposits are put down.

I personally won't be needing this for a couple of years at least (the plan of becoming a registered breeder next year didn't go through because of poor hip results) but I have already decided upon how I am going to set the deposit part of it up.
I am going to make a contract on the what's and when's of the deposit, which is going to include (not necessarily in that order):
When deposit have to be paid.
Where the deposit has to be paid too.
What the amount the deposit is, and how much the full amount of the puppy will be.
Under which clauses the breeder (me) can choose to discontinue the agreement and what this means; giving back the deposit would be the obvious thing here. - by law here putting down a deposit means that the seller is obliged to hold op his end of the deal (in this end that would mean supply a dog), unless there is a contract with a clause stating otherwise.
Under which clauses the buyer can choose to discontinue the agreement and what this means; when the buyer is entitled to have his deposit returned - this could be in the cases where the breeder proves unable to hand over a "product" to the value of which the deposit represents or it could be in cases where the buyer becomes aware of "faults" that the seller (breeder) have not given correct information (to the knowledge of the seller) or deliberately concealed vital information that would have made the buyer not choose to buy from said Seller/Mating
In which cases where the Buyer is not entitled to get back his deposit; eg. if the Buyer decides not to get a puppy after having paid the deposit, but this without any fault of the Sellers.
Etc.
Sorry yes, was referring primarily to deposits before pups are even born. However, still I'm not sure deposits of any kind are as common place here, as where you are.
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Re: Non refundable deposits

Post by TerriHolt » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:18 pm

Taz wrote:Sorry yes, was referring primarily to deposits before pups are even born. However, still I'm not sure deposits of any kind are as common place here, as where you are.
I have seen deposits upon pups being born and even before they are is common practice...

I can personally see the logic with it, like debby said, she will only breed if there are enough people wanting them... If she gets say... 10 people wanting pups and 8 decide they don't want them after all when the pups are born then it defeats the purpose of breeding because enough people want a pup...

If people are genuinely serious about wanting a pup and have put a lot of thought, consideration and effort to look into linage... as well as taken the life span, needs and wants into account. Then they should have no issue about losing the money because they won't change their mind if the deposit is taken when they are born and the desired sex is attainable... If the breeder fails to deliver at all or with in an agreed time frame then it should also not be an issue because said breeder will refund...

I'm sorry, i re-phrased this several times and i can't seem to make it look like an opinion, not an argument :oops: In short, it's jst safeguarding that all pups have homes :D
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Re: Non refundable deposits

Post by AZDehlin » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:32 am

I am glad a post was made about this... personally I will not take deposits until a litter is on the ground. Will the TDR have a rule on this or should breed clubs come up with rules to something like this?

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Re: Non refundable deposits

Post by Katlin » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:23 am

I'm not a fan of the "deposit before the puppy is born" it also doesn't help when the breeder says that you are going to miss the chance to get a puppy if you don't have your deposit in. It pressures people and that's not what buying a puppy should be about.
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Re: Non refundable deposits

Post by Nino » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:21 am

AZDehlin wrote:I am glad a post was made about this... personally I will not take deposits until a litter is on the ground. Will the TDR have a rule on this or should breed clubs come up with rules to something like this?
To be honest I don't think there should be put up rules about this not by the TDR at least, what the individual clubs do is up to them I think.
I do however think that there could be made a page with information about this - which includes one or several examples of how these agreements can be put up :)
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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by claireyclaire » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:53 pm

I paid deposits for both my tam girls and was very surprised that no deposit was required when purchasing my pedigree maremma sheepdog. I paid the full amount in cash the day I picked him up, the breeder said she wouldn't take any money until I was sure I wanted a pup from that litter and I had chosen the one I wanted.
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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by Taz » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:15 pm

claireyclaire wrote:I paid deposits for both my tam girls and was very surprised that no deposit was required when purchasing my pedigree maremma sheepdog. I paid the full amount in cash the day I picked him up, the breeder said she wouldn't take any money until I was sure I wanted a pup from that litter and I had chosen the one I wanted.
Yes and in my experience that's how it usually goes.
I maintain the belief that deposits aren't common practice, given the fact that most puppies aren't purchased from what we may describe as responsible breeders. Most come from random /accidental matings, byb and puppy farms..
And not all responsible breeders ask for deposits either.
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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by Rahne » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:43 pm

About deposits being common, where I live it isn't.. more the opposite actually ;)

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Re: NON-REFUNDABLE DEPOSITS

Post by Shadowgate » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:42 am

Interesting topic... A deposit is common in North Amercia. I know breeders of dogs, cats and horses all of which require a deposit, some of them once the pregnancy is confirmed and some once the breeding has taken place. I have even chatted with bird and rodent breeders and even some of them ask for a deposit (not so much rodent unless you are talking high numbers...like a rabbit farm).

Many of the Shiloh breeders in Ontario ask for a deposit even before the litter is born. If there are no puppies some of them just push customers to another litter, or some of them will offer the deposit back if they cannot provide a pup. Personally I ask for deposits once the breeding has taken place on a proven stud or bitch, and usually only if it was a natural tie (not AI). Unproven and I ask once the pregnancy has been confirmed or the litter is born. My deposits are not refundable unless I cannot provide you with a puppy from the litter the customer has inquired about. If there was a failed pregnancy the customer then has the option to wait for another litter or have their deposit back. :)

I think the only time that I have seen a deposit waved is when another breeder is on your list. At least in the dog world I am involved in. In Shilohs in particular a deposit would not be required when an experienced breeder is asking for one of your pups, but that makes sense to me since an experienced breeder would know what they are looking for and are already keeping dogs. Shiloh breeders "jump" at the chance to have another breeder take or keep one of their lines :D It doesn't happen every day, but it makes you proud when it does 8-)
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