Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

All topics pertaining to the sale of ITR registered Tamaskan puppies / adults, as well as international shipping.
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Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Tiantai » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:45 pm

I know that this sounds a bit off but I was just wondering if there will ever be a TDR breeder in East Asian countries. From the lists that I've seen, it's mostly North America, Australia, and the west but I know for a fact that a lot of people in places like Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan are also interested in lupine-appearance breeds with working-type instincts. Maybe we can find someone in these countries interested in the Tamaskan breed, after all, part of our long-term goal is to promote the breed all around the world! :)

I think we might meet some bigger challenges trying to promote the breed in China though since that country is very overly restrictive. But for now, I'm more excited about the increasing popularity of interests here in Canada.
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Rahne » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:14 pm

Umm i'm not sure.. They eat dogs :?

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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by TerriHolt » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:19 pm

Rahne wrote:Umm i'm not sure.. They eat dogs :?
:evil:

i watched something on tv when i was little (thats when i learned sneaking down to watch tv was not good!) and a little girl picked out which dog she wanted... like they do with lobsters... and it was a beautiful GSD with such sad eye's... i will never forget that... not to mention the other thing with cats i saw :evil:
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by TParham86 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:37 am

TerriHolt wrote:
Rahne wrote:Umm i'm not sure.. They eat dogs :?
:evil:

i watched something on tv when i was little (thats when i learned sneaking down to watch tv was not good!) and a little girl picked out which dog she wanted... like they do with lobsters... and it was a beautiful GSD with such sad eye's... i will never forget that... not to mention the other thing with cats i saw :evil:

:( I agree..I saw a show like that when I was younger too and it was scaring :( seeing those poor cats and dogs crammed in tiny cages waiting to be eaten :( :( I wouldn't want any Tams having to deal with that..bad enough those poor animals have too :(

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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Tiantai » Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:24 am

Rahne wrote:Umm i'm not sure.. They eat dogs :?
HEY! :x Please watch what you're saying, Rahne. Not all East Asian people (particularly the Chinese, Koreans, Japanese and southeast Asians whom many often point their fingers at) eat domestic dogs. In fact, most of them do NOT eat dogs. There are people in these mentioned countries who do but a lot of them keep dogs as companions rather than breed them for food (in fact, the dog meat menu in Jillin province, the ONLY province in China that still allows the consumption of dogs, is becoming less popular now as more younger Chinese and Yanbian Koreans there are starting to look at this practice with much disdain). There are also very few people who still consume dogs in Japan but you're less likely to find those filthy low-lifes, plus it's no longer legal there.

I know that what you wrote was meant to be a joke but I do take that quite offensively because I'm also an ethnic Chinese (though I'm from Canada) myself and by saying "they eat dogs" you've pretty much insulted me, a Chinese-descent. I can NEVER imagine eating a mankind's best friend! That's extremely sick! In fact, I'd much rather clobber a dog-eating asshole if I ever meet one in person! But even as a Chinese I've yet to actually encounter such people who commit this kind of act.

Bottom line: Please don't go bad-mouthing certain cultures even for jokes. There are morbid humours that aren't funny to some people.

Also, this is totally off-topic! Can we get back on the proper topic here?
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by TerriHolt » Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:35 am

a Chinese restaurant got closed down where i live because they found dog meat in the freezer... i ate there!!! i recently saw an article on yahoo news about the transportation of 1000's of dogs in a lorry been transported for that reason... this was just 1 of them http://www.pictures-of-cats.org/eating- ... -cats.html ... where activists bought the lorry containing the dogs who were very ill and suffering so very badly... one day you may find a willing breeder who would send dogs there or maybe when it becomes illegal to... buy dogs and use them for anything other than work or pet... but they don't even look after humans so how would a dog survive? http://forum.goregrish.com/threads/litt ... ony.14327/ i'm sorry, i have no intention to insult anybody which i'm pretty sure i will do but everything i've seen, documentary's, the prospect that i've eaten dog meat... i'm sure you can understand that some people would not be too happy about the thought of new dogs going over there...

I AM NOT saying that every body is the same and everybody eats dog because i'm sure they don't but how would a breeder know where their dogs are going? i'm sure the breeders didn't send kevin dogs for a puppy mill but thy could make the same mistake sending dogs over there and they wouldn't know what the dogs are been farmed for... i know i'm not explaining this right... but the breeders of kevins dogs sold to, what they thought were trust worthy people, what if they sell to the same kind of trust worthy people in China, Korea or Japan?

Edit i don't tar everybody with the same brush, the small amount of people spoil it for the rest of the population and i'm sure you can see it from a breeders point of view... try to look at this open minded and don't take it personal...
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Rahne » Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:55 am

I was NOT making a joke, it was meant very seriously. I'm sorry if you felt insulted, that was not my intention. I wouldn't feel comfortable sending my pups over there even if it is just a few people that would eat dogs or treat them badly.. I would be worried sick that they end up in the wrong hands. For that matter I would also feel uncomfortable sending dogs to Africa or South America.

I'm not saying it will never happen, but I don't think breeders will be eager to send their pups to certain parts of the world..

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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Nino » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:21 am

I have to say, that I would probably not myself send a puppy to Asia.. Just as I wouldn't send one to Africa, and other parts of the world.
I don't at all at this point even feel comfortable to send a puppy to another country, let alone to a country that I am not sure about.
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Blustag » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:15 pm

Can I just butt in here :D I have had several enquiries now from people in the Far East including someone who is now on here and moving back to Scandinavia in the next year or so. I told them as I have told everyone else.
I will not export to the Far East so they will have to wait until they move back
home. My reasons are purely because of the lack of respect for our canine friends. Now before anyone gets upset I am talking about as a whole. Of course things are improving and I do know personally breeders out there in Japan who really do look after and care for their dogs. I have been told all about the atrocities that go on over there from people who 'live' over there and we have all seen the documentaries on tv, but I am well aware of all the charities that are trying their best to improve the lives of the canines but for the moment until things improve drastically I will not export to the Far East. It is not the people that want a puppy I have
a problem with it is the fact that IF they were to breed.....where would the pups end up? OR IF for instance they had to rehome their puppy....where
would it end up??

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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by AngieH » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:57 pm

I am not a breeder. I have no experience with breeding anything. I have no ambitions to become a breeder.
I *am* a pet entheusiast. (dogs in particular)

I am also one of the lucky ones. I found a Tamaskan breeder only 12 hours away by car (round trip!) after phone conversations and checking references, on one another, I still insisted on 3 kennel visits. One to meet the breeder, the parent dogs, and see for myself the conditions they live in and the level of care they enjoy. One to meet the puppies at 5-6 weeks to be matched with a pup based on personal experiences with the litter. The last visit, to pick the puppy up and bring her home in person when she is 8 weeks old.

As a pet entheusiast, I would question any breeder of any breed (yes, even those esteemed and reputable breeders of this forum) why they would (and in many cases have) sent dogs away internationally to *any* area where they cannot enforce their breeding contracts.

I think the "They eat dogs" line of justification is oversimplistic and rude. But I do agree that it would be a bad idea to ship defenseless puppies to Asia. But I also believe it is a bad idea to ship defenseless puppies abroad anywhere as routinel practice. (maybe in special circumstances or to personal friends and colleagues, but not just to any who that fills out a form with the "right" answers and pays for shipping.) With traditional, personal placement of purposefully bred dogs, a breeder has better husbandry of the dogs they are responsible for calling into existance. It makes it possible to enforce the puppy contracts or, if necessary, easier to reclaim pups that were obtained through fraud or end up In a bad situation.

I realize no breeder can guarantee that his/her dogs NEVER come to an unfortunate situation, but it sure reduces the risk by a significant margin to simply insist on a personal kennel visit and interview before committing to a contract.

It is not my place to dictate what others should or should not do. But for my part, I have greater respect for breeders who place puppies personally.

I know a local breeder of Shelties here in Ohio that personally visits every home she places a pup into. She will go the home and, using her experienced eye, offer suggestions to the family about where might be attractive to a puppy to pee, to chew, to get into trouble and advise them in "puppy-proofing" their home. I agree she goes way above and beyond and not everyone can be expected to do all that. But with the bar raised that high, how can it be too much trouble to at least insist on shaking the actual hand that will hold the leash of your puppy?

I consider it the most basic, ethical responsibility of a breeder to only breed dogs if he/she can confidently place them in loving homes. Not for money, not for power, not for ego; but for the love of their dogs.

Sometimes I fear that all the excitement and prestige of international Tamaskan breeding may undermine the welfare of these magnificent dogs. :(

As a pet parrent, (unless I am rescuing a shelter-dog) I insist on only getting a puppy from a breeder I know, at kennels I visit, with parents I have seen, after talking to the owners of the breeders previous litters. Yes, that puts many pets out of my reach.

Maybe, if more of us insist on these precautions, more breeders will be way to suspicious of the puppy-millers, back-yard breeders and dog-eaters to EVER let a puppy go into the great, international unknown.

If we prospective pet-parents are too lazy or feel too entitled and want any rare or exotic breed of dog shipped to us just because we want one and have the cash, then *we* are the problem as much as the breeders.

To the breeders I say this: Please don't be swayed by the tone of entitlement you hear from us foreign strangers clamoring for you to send us your precious puppies. You have no obligation to us. You do not answer to us.
You answer to your dogs who love you, trust you, and are only on this earth because you called them into being. Do right by your obligation to them and we will love your for it (even as we complain that you should send us one, lol)

Don't worry about us. We'll learn that if we want an exotic, far-away pet, we will have to make exotic, far-away journeys. And you will know, by our commitment to do so, that we are a good candidate for placement.

Sincerely,
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Rahne » Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:14 pm

AngieH wrote: I think the "They eat dogs" line of justification is oversimplistic and rude.
I blame it on my own culture, being Dutch! :mrgreen:


You do hopefully understand that if Lynn hadn't sent out dogs to the US but placed all of her pups locally you WOULD NOT have Paka now...

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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by jmarino82 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:40 pm

Slightly off topic, but if you research how China did a mass round up of animals before the olympics and the extermination methods used should be pretty clear is saying that this is not a safe area for animals-i'd be worried about the access to competent vet care as well.. While the owner would love their animal dearly, who's to say it wouldn't be stolen? Or what would happen if it snuck out? I once worked with a man from Cambodia who was very open about his love of dog and cat meat. It's just the society's attitude there is much different as animals are not really companions to most in those countries.

I think breeders would have to consider it on a case by case basis on the specific country being exported to and what their local ideology is.

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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Booma » Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:48 pm

So angie, your saying Lynn shouldn't send me a puppy then? As rahne pointed out, there wouldnt be any tams in America
If Lynn hadn't shipped them out.
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Blustag » Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:01 pm

Guess I had better butt in again :D Anyone who knows me and has had a puppy from me knows that they need a note from God before they get one :lol: Seriously though I screen all my potential puppy buyers to the hilt and further if needed. Im sure many on here will vouch for that :D I certainly dont just send puppies out to anyone. All have been on my waiting list and in that time which can be up to a year I get to know the people well
before they even get their puppy.

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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by TeresaC » Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:56 am

I can only speak for Japan, but I can tell you that the Japanese people love their dogs. I am half Japanese and have family in Japan so I have been there many times. There are many breed enthusiates who have dedicated centuries to Akita, Japanese Chins, Shibas, etc. There are many other breeds that have made there way to Japan. There is a large number of vets, pet stores and dog trainers popping up. I know there is a huge demand for trainers with experience in positve reinforcement training experience.
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Hawthorne » Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:50 pm

For me, personally, I just will worry for puppies that have a short plane ride. I can't imagine shipping a puppy so far--halfway around the world. Just my two cents.
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by AngieH » Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:24 pm

Rahne wrote:
AngieH wrote: I think the "They eat dogs" line of justification is oversimplistic and rude.
I blame it on my own culture, being Dutch! :mrgreen:


You do hopefully understand that if Lynn hadn't sent out dogs to the US but placed all of her pups locally you WOULD NOT have Paka now...
This is true, and by my own personal standards, if that were the case, a Tamaskan puppy would be beyond my personal reach. Just as many pets are beyond my reach.

But since Paka is availible from a breeder I met, at a kennel I have visited with Parents I have met, I have the good fortune to be picking her up in January. :)

*If* Tamaskan dogs were never shipped here, it is true, I would not be getting g one... Nor would Kevin have ever had one. :? If we could go back in time, would I give up my chance to own a Tamaskan puppy in exchange for preventing a puppy-mill from ever having them? You betcha :!:

It's like Solomon dividing the baby. The true loving mother was willing to give up her child to the fraudulent mother to preserve the child's safety. How about the rest of you?

(Lynn, I am humbly impressed with the extensive and thorough effort you make when shipping your puppies abroad. It is an admirable, sincere and heroic effort. But to all of our sorrow, and none greater then yours, it is regretable the note from God you required for the original placement didn't prevent the original owner from selling her Tamaskan to Kevin. Too bad you were not close enough to take the contract to a small claims with jurisdiction to hear the case and reclaim the dog who was sold to Kevin in violation of that contract. If only a note from God was enforcable from accross an ocean, my concern would be irrelevant.)

* If* personal placement had been observed all along, I would not be getting Paka. But nor would there be any such thing as an "American Tamaskan" nor a "Tamaskan Truth" website or a need for a "Stop Comercial Breeding of Tamaskans" Facebook etc, etc, etc.

So yes, there would be sacrifices to prevent all of that. But they are sacrifices the breeders and pet entheusiasts make out of love for the greater safety and welfare of the Breed.

Wether or not it would be worth it to peruse personal placementns, I leave to each individual involved.
For me, as an individual, it is worth the limmitations, the travel, the expense and the time to get pets only through personal placement and I am participating in a personal placement arrangement for Paka.

As always, your milage may vary. Thank you for hearing my philosophy on the matter.
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Rahne » Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:46 pm

People like Kevin are all over the world, also in the UK.. So the same thing could have happened with a 'locally' placed pup, people can visit you and become close friends and then betray you after all :roll:

Kevin got his dogs from a local breeder, not from overseas. So saying you only want to place pups locally, because then they won't end up in the wrong hands doesn't make sense to me.

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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Booma » Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:34 pm

Someone would have eventually relocated and started breeding anyway. Unfortunately there is no way to Stop ppl like RPK right now, until laws are changed. Lynn asked me about a thousand questions, asked for photos of my house, me, my pets and made me promise the pup would go back to her of anything ever happened and I couldn't keep him. There's no point in starting a new dog breed and then saying "no you live too fat away you can't have one"
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Tiantai » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:13 pm

Currently in Canada my personal recommendation would be that if you got a Tamaskan from oversea and then later on realized that you can no longer take care of it due to family issues or whatever the case is or if you can't take care of the dog for a while but would like to have it back at some point of time in the future, the person I currently recomend would be to surrender the dog to the local Registered TDR Breeders like Amit of the NTCC instead of sending the dog all the way back but you must let the original breeder oversea know about it as well so that they'll know that at least the dog isn't going into the wrong hands.

I understand that there are a HELL LOT of people like RPK and even some worst than him so you do need to be careful if you want to temporarily send your dog to someone to look after while you're in a condition making you unable to be taking care of them. And I agree with Rahne here, Ice Wind duped about, if I'm not mistaken, two TDR breeders in the past. They initially befriended us and then bought off three Tamaskans from Europe and we were unaware of the fact that those scum bags were actually puppy millers who were commercially breeding Shiba Inu. Then when they decided that they didn't want to take care of the trio, that being Tundra, Tasha, and Moose, they gave it to RPK and that's how this whole dilemma got started. Currently, RPK is still in possession of Tundra but Moose is now in a loving home.

I think that to ensure that none of our dogs end up in a hellish environment in the East-Asian countries we need to first find the best environment where there is less of those dog-eating scumbags around and then find someone who interested in the Tamaskan breed who is trust-worthy and willing to follow our TDR rules and from there that person will keep an eye out to make sure that every dog is living in a safe environment there. I know that a lot of people there are interested in raising the Tamaskan breed and while it may not seem like a good time to send one over there, maybe with the passage of time we'll be able to find a person who we know is willing to accept full responsibly there and ensure that they are willing to take back any dogs that they sell to the owners should those new owners not be able continue to raise them.

Another thing that we still need to get through is the animal barrier crafted by the communist governments of China. I'm not going to get all deep on the political stuff (although I personally hate the communist government VERY much, I swear, the way they killed many domestic dogs suspected of carrying viruses during the SARS pandemic makes me want to clobber them as well!) here but I think that even though the situations with consumption of domestic dogs is fading we still need to find a way to get pass the borderline. It's a LOT harder to bring foreign dogs into China than it is to bring them into Taiwan, South Korea, and so on.
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by JulieSmith » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:26 pm

I think that that there will always be bias against countries / cultures people do not know or understand, it may not be right but that is how human nature works. A lot of East-Asia countries are quite restrictive about what they let other countries know about them, so all we get are the negative documentaries and news reports which are often made by reporters with an agenda other than showing what is going on. I am sure that people living in East Asia have a different view of the West than we have, just as people from Europe have a different view of America and Americans have a different view of Europeans.

People always make generalisations as well, most people (well on here anyway) would not make fun or insult someone else based on their culture or nationality, well not intentionally. I did notice on another thread that someone used the excuse that someone was Irish when they had said something silly, not politically correct, but making use of a generalisation. You also hear people saying they where having a blond moment when they do something silly, should I as a blond take offence? I don't take offence, its just something people say, its not meant as an insult.

Will there be a TDR breeder in East Asia, probably one day, but not for a long time would be my guess.

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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Booma » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:24 pm

Yes I did laugh and say she was Irish, but I've also said that to her face about other things, and I've also asked her I'd she eats potatoes and cabbage all the time too. I meant it as a joke, and the girl laughed and took no offence. My great grandparents are irish. I also say I have blonde moments.
It's all in good fun, and people generally aren't offended. Aussies say all the time that people from new Zealand do "things" with sheep. We know they don't, but we say it anyway and I've never seen a kiwi (a new zealander) actually be offended by the jokes
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Flea » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:01 am

Wow! This topic is quite heated :S I think it is safe to say that no pup will be sent to any third world countries that dont have laws against/ condone cruelty to animals. There are tv advertisements here and gave been many currant affairs show depicting how animals are treated so horrifically ( and yes particularly in Asia). The Image I see daily of a bear dancing on hot coals for people amusement is absolutely disgusting, and there are soo many more instances than this. Now I know not everyone is like this, and the original people who would have imported may have good intentions....BUT the spread of any animal through a country that does protect its animals is dangerous and allows the bad people to take advantage. That's just the way it is, and it's certainly has nothing to do with race! No one said oh you are Asian you can't have a puppy. It's referring to country and laws in it.....for the safety of the future Tams.

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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by AZDehlin » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:57 am

Flea wrote:Wow! This topic is quite heated :S I think it is safe to say that no pup will be sent to any third world countries that dont have laws against/ condone cruelty to animals. There are tv advertisements here and gave been many currant affairs show depicting how animals are treated so horrifically ( and yes particularly in Asia). The Image I see daily of a bear dancing on hot coals for people amusement is absolutely disgusting, and there are soo many more instances than this. Now I know not everyone is like this, and the original people who would have imported may have good intentions....BUT the spread of any animal through a country that does protect its animals is dangerous and allows the bad people to take advantage. That's just the way it is, and it's certainly has nothing to do with race! No one said oh you are Asian you can't have a puppy. It's referring to country and laws in it.....for the safety of the future Tams.
This is put really well

How is it amusing to see a bear hurt it self by walking on hot coals... that is just sick. The only stuff I have heard and followed for the last five years is Japan's whale and dolphin slaughter... I am a avid sea shepherd follower :oops: :)

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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Dorthe » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:50 am

Can I just butt in here :D I have had several enquiries now from people in the Far East including someone who is now on here and moving back to Scandinavia in the next year or so. I told them as I have told everyone else.
I will not export to the Far East so they will have to wait until they move back
Im the one that lives here in china, currently in shanghai. And i would NEVER get a dog from china, or send it to china! I have seen horrible things here, they do not treat their dogs like we do. I live in a rich area of shanghai 10 min away from the jin mao tower and swfc, and the dogs here are not happy dogs, they kick and hit them. And it hurts my heart to see them in pain. Im a volunteer at a dogs rescue center here, and have seen what ppl are capable of. I had a puppy in fostercare which had been tortured with acid, I had a malamute that had been locked in a cage for 6 months where it could barely move, it was terrified of ppl.

In the zoo here in shanghai they have a place where dogs a locked in cold concrete cages, and the chinese throw biscuits at them and jabs them with sticks. Dogs like malamute, golden, sct. bernard, collie, German shepherds etc.
Right across from the zoo you can find the pet market, where you can buy puppies for 500 rmb (about 70 euro), they are locked in cages, some in birdcages where they walk on bars, and some can barely even fit in the cages. At the animal rescue center we try as hard as possible to prevent all this, but its way to much for this small organization to take care of all alone.

So yes i think you all know where i stand, for me its a big NO. keep the tamaskan away from countries with this much animal cruelty.

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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Dorthe » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:56 am

Im leaving on holiday tomorrow, going back to denmark.
When i come back to china again I will go to the zoo and the pet market, and take some pictures and post them on facebook. If anyone wants to see them you can add me with my email Dorthe-Pedersen@ofir.dk or my name Dorthe Boysen Pedersen.

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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by jyotin » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:30 am

People are SO disgusting it makes me SOOOO angry and shocked that the human race can be so inhumane and ruthless.
However, to play devils advocate....this is similar to factory farming here on the western side of the world is it not? Here it is accepted to treat livestock with cruelty before they are butchered (in factory farms they almost always are)...and in the East it is general practice to do the same to cats and dogs.

All practices, east and west, are wrong. But the same stuff happens to cows, chickens, pigs, etc., but no one seems to be as enraged as when it happens to cats and dogs. Their all animals, they all feel pain...same difference no?
"Compassion for animals is intimately connected with goodness of character; and it may be confidently asserted that he who is cruel to animals cannot be a good man"
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by TerriHolt » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:05 am

AZDehlin wrote:
How is it amusing to see a bear hurt it self by walking on hot coals... that is just sick. The only stuff I have heard and followed for the last five years is Japan's whale and dolphin slaughter... I am a avid sea shepherd follower :oops: :)
i once made the tragic mistake of watching 'The Cove' :(

also heard about the bear on hot coals and around the same time i got educated on bear dancing too.

i think the a fore mentioned countries would benefit from education, they are... not as... advanced on animal welfare as some other countries. if the next gens learn even a little bit an pass it on like lucas, if he can pass on to others, tiny relatives or friends so they grow up with the same respect for animals then thats a step closer. there will be no educating the people who are used to the ways they have lived by so it's down to educating the younger generation and making sure they don't get taught how the older people treat animals.
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Booma » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:33 am

I donate to WSPA whenever I can, and they always call and email me with updates. It's so nice when they call me and tell me that another dancing bear has been rescued
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by HiTenshi16 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:09 pm

TerriHolt wrote:i once made the tragic mistake of watching 'The Cove' :(
I did too, couldn't keep myself from crying.
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by AZDehlin » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:47 pm

jyotin wrote:People are SO disgusting it makes me SOOOO angry and shocked that the human race can be so inhumane and ruthless.
However, to play devils advocate....this is similar to factory farming here on the western side of the world is it not? Here it is accepted to treat livestock with cruelty before they are butchered (in factory farms they almost always are)...and in the East it is general practice to do the same to cats and dogs.

All practices, east and west, are wrong. But the same stuff happens to cows, chickens, pigs, etc., but no one seems to be as enraged as when it happens to cats and dogs. Their all animals, they all feel pain...same difference no?
I believe it is no different but this is why I refuse to eat animals at all. I would just as soon kick somebody who is hurting a cow as I would someone hurting a dog... All animals deserve respect, more so than most human.
TerriHolt wrote:
AZDehlin wrote:
How is it amusing to see a bear hurt it self by walking on hot coals... that is just sick. The only stuff I have heard and followed for the last five years is Japan's whale and dolphin slaughter... I am a avid sea shepherd follower :oops: :)
i once made the tragic mistake of watching 'The Cove' :(

also heard about the bear on hot coals and around the same time i got educated on bear dancing too.

i think the a fore mentioned countries would benefit from education, they are... not as... advanced on animal welfare as some other countries. if the next gens learn even a little bit an pass it on like lucas, if he can pass on to others, tiny relatives or friends so they grow up with the same respect for animals then thats a step closer. there will be no educating the people who are used to the ways they have lived by so it's down to educating the younger generation and making sure they don't get taught how the older people treat animals.

The cove made me cry like a baby... those poor dolphins.

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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Tiantai » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:46 pm

jyotin wrote:People are SO disgusting it makes me SOOOO angry and shocked that the human race can be so inhumane and ruthless.
However, to play devils advocate....this is similar to factory farming here on the western side of the world is it not? Here it is accepted to treat livestock with cruelty before they are butchered (in factory farms they almost always are)...and in the East it is general practice to do the same to cats and dogs.

All practices, east and west, are wrong. But the same stuff happens to cows, chickens, pigs, etc., but no one seems to be as enraged as when it happens to cats and dogs. Their all animals, they all feel pain...same difference no?
I completely agree with you on the dogs and cats but I know it's going to be a lot harder to convince other people regarding the cows, pigs, chickens, and other common farm animals that mankind has been consuming for many years. I know what you're getting at, Jyoti, but I think one needs to understand that MOST humans on earth are omnivores and a lot of people like myself have built on a balance diet of a variety of vegetation and meat. I don't eat too much meat as most of my diet is grain product. The point is, we can't ALL be vegetarian BUT we CAN convince most people to cut down a little more on meat and this might lead to there being LESS of those factory farms and less needs for the commercial breeding of livestocks.

The meat-farming of dogs and cats has reduced a lot in East-Asia compared to a few decades back when my parents escaped from there in the 1970s (something to do with getting away from those oppressive totalitarian freaks, not going to go into details) to Canada but I can see why you're afraid to having Tamaskans shipped there. I do NOT want to see any dogs end up on the dinner plate either (sorry for the explicit language) but hopefully in the long-term when the dog-meat is finally reduced to a tiny dot we can finally introduce Tamaskans into these regions. Remember though, we can't all be vegetarian, somewhere along the line I need to go fishing at Trenton for my omega-3 fatty acids (I RARELY purchase fish in grocery stores except for caught salmon which hardly appears in the market). I don't mean to sound cruel to you but I CANNOT be a vegetarian for long.
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Hawthorne » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:45 pm

jyotin wrote:People are SO disgusting it makes me SOOOO angry and shocked that the human race can be so inhumane and ruthless.
However, to play devils advocate....this is similar to factory farming here on the western side of the world is it not? Here it is accepted to treat livestock with cruelty before they are butchered (in factory farms they almost always are)...and in the East it is general practice to do the same to cats and dogs.

All practices, east and west, are wrong. But the same stuff happens to cows, chickens, pigs, etc., but no one seems to be as enraged as when it happens to cats and dogs. Their all animals, they all feel pain...same difference no?
I agree with you here. And the answer is, if you are not vegetarian, to buy from local farmers who you know treat the animals with respect. There is a big difference between factory farms, and a mom and pop place who only have their family farm. Buying local is good for the environment--it uses less fuel to get the food from point A to point B to your table. Of course, then there's organic... Okay, getting off topic here--but if we treat other living beings as we wish to be treated, then the world will be a healthier, happier place. And human health is dependent upon the health of the earth--so--you are what you eat / breathe / drink...
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Tiantai » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:26 pm

TerriHolt wrote:
i once made the tragic mistake of watching 'The Cove' :(

also heard about the bear on hot coals and around the same time i got educated on bear dancing too.

i think the a fore mentioned countries would benefit from education, they are... not as... advanced on animal welfare as some other countries. if the next gens learn even a little bit an pass it on like Lucas, if he can pass on to others, tiny relatives or friends so they grow up with the same respect for animals then thats a step closer. there will be no educating the people who are used to the ways they have lived by so it's down to educating the younger generation and making sure they don't get taught how the older people treat animals.
Hmm, I can see that no one has posted here for two months now but yes I agree with terriholt. You are absolutely right about there being no way of educating older generations whom have grown used to the tradition of breeding animals including dogs and cats for food. It's also pretty offensive to those who have been eating these animals for decades and then some younger person like myself just steps into their lives and say "that's wrong". I can tell you though that none of my relatives nor any of their best friends in Vietnam and China eat dogs or cats (in fact, they actually adopted and raise two cats at home). I am happy to say that a lot of the younger generations are starting to convert to seeing dogs and cats as man-kind's best friends so I think it's a start. Though until that dog and cat meat is completely abolished I don't think any of my relatives over there are going to be able to get a Tamaskan for a while.

By the way, a few days ago my two cousins (Sôcôla Đen and Terry Phuong) from Vietnam were drawn into the Tamaskan breed after seeing the Ustream video of Freyja's nine pups on facebook. Although Sôcôla is more interested in raising a Malamute which does exist in Vietnam, she's also interested in the Tamaskan. I've been telling her about this dog-meat situation (in Chinese* because her English is bad) though. Now she is also hoping for a TDR breeder in Vietnam in the distant future. I did spoke to her privately asking her to help certain animal rights group down there to stop the farming of dogs and cats for meat in Vietnam but because I live in Canada there is little I can do about this so I pretty much laid the burden on her :( It's a shame that there are lots of good people there interested in raising the Tamaskan breed and yet because of the dog-meat farming we can't risk sending a dog there yet. I've also warned her about RPK and the no-wolf fable so I hope Terry and Sôcôla can help prevent the misconception from spreading down there.

*My relatives in Vietnam are ethnic Chinese.
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Blustag » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:59 am

Once again Lucas.... I am the main breeder and founder of the Tamaskan breed and have the most Tamaskan dogs. I WILL NOT be sending any puppies
out to the Far East at anytime. I doubt very much if any of our breeders would do this. I do get enquiries and I am very polite in my answers to them.

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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by tigerstedt » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:05 pm

A quick note of self observation: one of the (or, to be honest, THE one) point that lead me to the Tam was the TDR and how well guarded the Tam is. Even though there are no clubs in Norway yet, Denmark, Sweden, Germany and the UK aren't that far away. This has nothing to do with feeling scutinized (God knows Lynn did that prior to me getting Bow ;) ), but it creates a society. For my part, and I believe most owners agree, I regard having a Tam as a special responsibility as we on one side have to do our best to give the breed a future and on the other side have to be ready to defend it against misconseptions, rumers and slander. The TDR gives us that common ground and it keep us hounest :) . Taking the breed off continent is something else all together as anyone doing so does no longer have this kind of safety net or community. As Lynn opened with, what if the Tam had to be given to someone else? What kind of control would the previous owner have? How could anyone stop the next owner from giving the Tam to a puppy mill breeder? Now, Australian law is based on commonwealth law, so agreements made in England would be valid there too. The East Asia is something else. One thing is legal animal rights in these countries (which are scetchy at best), another thing is the swiftness of the law since "it's just a dog".

In a bright future it might be that the Tam reaches even the Far East, but I pray that this does not happen until the TDR is also established there as well.

On the note regarding the informal network that comes hand in hand with owning a Tam, I would never HAVE to put my Bow up for adoption (God forbid this should ever happen, just an example). I have many friends good with dogs, BUT Bow is a Tam! I need to think on the breed as well as on her well being. However, thanks to a close knit community, I have options (Tam owners) in Sweden and Denmark who knows the Tam and who would most likely be happy to have her (am I right, Nino :) ?).

PS. This was more than a quick note, but still :)
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Tiantai » Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:49 pm

tigerstedt wrote:A quick note of self observation: one of the (or, to be honest, THE one) point that lead me to the Tam was the TDR and how well guarded the Tam is. Even though there are no clubs in Norway yet, Denmark, Sweden, Germany and the UK aren't that far away. This has nothing to do with feeling scutinized (God knows Lynn did that prior to me getting Bow ;) ), but it creates a society. For my part, and I believe most owners agree, I regard having a Tam as a special responsibility as we on one side have to do our best to give the breed a future and on the other side have to be ready to defend it against misconseptions, rumers and slander. The TDR gives us that common ground and it keep us honest :) . Taking the breed off continent is something else all together as anyone doing so does no longer have this kind of safety net or community. As Lynn opened with, what if the Tam had to be given to someone else? What kind of control would the previous owner have? How could anyone stop the next owner from giving the Tam to a puppy mill breeder? Now, Australian law is based on commonwealth law, so agreements made in England would be valid there too. The East Asia is something else. One thing is legal animal rights in these countries (which are scetchy at best), another thing is the swiftness of the law since "it's just a dog".

In a bright future it might be that the Tam reaches even the Far East, but I pray that this does not happen until the TDR is also established there as well.

On the note regarding the informal network that comes hand in hand with owning a Tam, I would never HAVE to put my Bow up for adoption (God forbid this should ever happen, just an example). I have many friends good with dogs, BUT Bow is a Tam! I need to think on the breed as well as on her well being. However, thanks to a close knit community, I have options (Tam owners) in Sweden and Denmark who knows the Tam and who would most likely be happy to have her (am I right, Nino :) ?).

PS. This was more than a quick note, but still :)
No offence taken, I do understand Lynn's point of view, even though my relatives won't be able to own one for a very long time. I, too, don't want any dogs falling into the wrong hands. It's bad enough that we already have nasty people like RPK on this planet and so on and I wouldn't risk taking any dogs over to another continent either knowing that it's difficult to establish control over who the pup is going to should a previous owner there decide that they don't want to raise them anymore. Aside from the dog-farming case, I don't want to ever see any Tams being sold to another puppy miller like RPK. In fact, I appreciate the TDR's efforts to secure the breed and prevent any of the dogs from falling into the insane people. This is also why I am interested in joining the TDR, because of the strict policies in order to form a security net for the breed of which Lynn has worked very hard to improve.

When I have my Amarok Tamaska kennel in Aurora, Ontario I will NEVER export ANY dogs out of the country because like you said, "anyone doing so will no longer have this kind of safety net or community" for the dog and you never know what's going to happen to him or her in the long run nor will I allow anyone to take any of my dogs, Tamaskan or not, to another continent, especially into the Far East. From your point I can see that you're trying to tell me that it's difficult to take back a dog if they're in a country where the TDR has yet to be established should the owner decided that they can no longer care for it which I agree completely. But that's also why I've been trying to help certain groups over there who are working to improve on animal rights as well as stop the dog meat farming business. Of course, this isn't solely about dog meat and animal rights but I can see why no Tamaskans should be sent there anytime in the near future. I don't want to think about what's already happened to three of the Tamaskans who fell into RPK's trap and currently also hoping that none of his current mutts get sent over there either. But I agree that UNTIL the TDR can successfully establish over there will NOT be a Tamaskan in the far east.

Sorry Big Cousin if you're reading this though I hope you can still get your Malamute. I still hope that the TDR can successfully establish in Taiwan and other places of the far east in the very distant future once the laws for animal rights overthere has changed and that the chances of a dog falling into the wrong hands will be very slim to none by that time but at the moment you've convinced me that we can't guaranteed what's going to occur. Sorry that I misled you with that optimistic idea :roll:
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by tigerstedt » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:44 pm

fangjingtuanlucas wrote:Sorry Big Cousin if you're reading this though I hope you can still get your Malamute. I still hope that the TDR can successfully establish in Taiwan and other places of the far east in the very distant future once the laws for animal rights overthere has changed and that the chances of a dog falling into the wrong hands will be very slim to none by that time but at the moment you've convinced me that we can't guaranteed what's going to occur. Sorry that I misled you with that optimistic idea :roll:
Oh, keep your optimism and ideas. It's what change the world! :) Who knows what'll happen in the future? Tell your Big Cusin just not now, but maybe some time later. We need all the Tam supportes we can get! :)
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Tankerman » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:10 pm

Wow, cannot imagine the offensive and borderline racist posts I've been reading here. Yes, some Asian do eat dogs. But many do not. And certainly no one in Hong Kong eat dogs. I also watched documentaries about school shootings in the US. So just because I watch a documentary about a school shooting in a particular school in the US means there MUST be school shootings in EVERY school in the US?

It's fine if you don't know enough about a place, but to use that as an excuse to automatically reject an offer from Asia based on preconceived notion without even bothering to actually research that place?!

Don't you realize there are dog breeds originating in Asia? The Shiba Inu? The Akita? The Shar Pei? The Shih Tzu? The Shiba by the way, would never have made it to the States if the Japanese breeders has the same attitude that some of you have.

Sorry for the rant, but I find some of the attitude here inexcusable in this day and age.

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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Booma » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:17 pm

This is an old thread, and while some may still feel this way, there are others that may not. I would like to breed in the future, and I may consider it depending on the person that applies.
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Tiantai » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:06 am

Well the eating dog thing is not the sole issue. It has drastically diminished over the years, you won't find that much in South Korea or most parts of China today. However, even if I was a breeder now which probably won't happen for a VERY long time, I still would not send any dogs into the mainland China UNTIL a TDR group establishes there. Human politics and personal histories aside, I've been told by a few parents of some first generation Chinese-Canadian classmates that the laws on the protection of domestic animals in most parts of China (excluding Guangdong province, Hong Kong, and Macau) is still pretty poor compared to here in North America. Not sure if this is all true though, just what I heard from word of mouth.
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by balto13 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:09 am

Tiantai wrote: UNTIL a TDR group establishes there
NO TDR group will establish there UNTIL there are Tams there - I think there has to be four to start a club ;) otherwise people could just start TDR groups in random places

Tiantai wrote:Human politics and personal histories aside, I've been told by a few parents of some first generation Chinese-Canadian classmates that the laws on the protection of domestic animals in most parts of China (excluding Guangdong province, Hong Kong, and Macau) is still pretty poor compared to here in North America. Not sure if this is all true though, just what I heard from word of mouth.

I think in general animal rights are pretty poor, I read stories about horrific things happening to dogs in the US as well, with little to no consequences :( that said I don't know China's animal regulations, I know people are quick to find articles about Asians eating dog and using that to claim ALL Asians eat dog :oops: I think there are some justifiable reasons for breeders to be hesitant, and some reasons are not as justifiable - either way, the really important thing is HOW people handle themselves when talking about other cultures and turning others down. I will agree that some of the comments in this thread highlight a lack of tact and experience with other cultures - I remember when some people told me (some still swear) that Japanese people will steal my dog, and eat it :lol: :lol: When I have told my Japanese friends or other military personal who have lived here 10+ years they all ask me "are you serious?"


JulieSmith wrote:I think that that there will always be bias against countries / cultures people do not know or understand, it may not be right but that is how human nature works. A lot of East-Asia countries are quite restrictive about what they let other countries know about them, so all we get are the negative documentaries and news reports which are often made by reporters with an agenda other than showing what is going on. I am sure that people living in East Asia have a different view of the West than we have, just as people from Europe have a different view of America and Americans have a different view of Europeans.
Yes, living in a country other than America but watching/looking at American culture has been very humbling (borderline embarrassing).

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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by balto13 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:35 am

Hawthorne wrote:
jyotin wrote:People are SO disgusting it makes me SOOOO angry and shocked that the human race can be so inhumane and ruthless.
However, to play devils advocate....this is similar to factory farming here on the western side of the world is it not? Here it is accepted to treat livestock with cruelty before they are butchered (in factory farms they almost always are)...and in the East it is general practice to do the same to cats and dogs.

All practices, east and west, are wrong. But the same stuff happens to cows, chickens, pigs, etc., but no one seems to be as enraged as when it happens to cats and dogs. Their all animals, they all feel pain...same difference no?
I agree with you here. And the answer is, if you are not vegetarian, to buy from local farmers who you know treat the animals with respect. There is a big difference between factory farms, and a mom and pop place who only have their family farm. Buying local is good for the environment--it uses less fuel to get the food from point A to point B to your table. Of course, then there's organic... Okay, getting off topic here--but if we treat other living beings as we wish to be treated, then the world will be a healthier, happier place. And human health is dependent upon the health of the earth--so--you are what you eat / breathe / drink...

well said! I wish it was easier to buy meat and dairy products from local farmers - even in the US it's not easy to find local farms who treat their animals ethically (I am guessing it's not as cost effective?)

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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Booma » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:52 am

Jacquie's right, a country must have 4 dogs /owners before a country club can be started.
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Tankerman » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:47 am

Well for those who still think Hong Kong people are a bunch of dog eaters or dog abusers, I will educate them here:

1. There are animal cruelty laws in place to prevent and prosecute cases of animal abuse:

http://www.spca.org.hk/welfare/eng/lawlist.asp

2. There is a well-established kennel club, the Hong Kong Kennel Club, which is recognized by the FCI, AKC, CKC and JKC:

http://www.hkkennelclub.com.hk/english/newset_eng.html

3. Animal care is top-rated as well, with the respected Hong Kong Veterinary Association governing the vet practice in the city:

http://www.hkva.org/

My cousin's friend is actually an Akita breeder. Maybe I should tell him not to send any Akita pups to the US, after all, I heard in the news there is dog fighting going on there (http://nation.time.com/2013/08/26/dog-f ... -4-states/), that MUST mean dog fighting is rampant in the States right? Who knows whether someone might kidnap that Akita pup for dog fighting purposes?

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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by TerriHolt » Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:58 am

I have personally had a rethink since this old thread started. I have learned and grown some more...

I know (or the news here has reported) that china is aiming to have dog/cat meat taken off the menu within 10 years but that aside...

My main point for having a rethink is, there is animal cruelty all over the world not just china. There is animal cruelty where i live (someone got caught buying small mammals for live snake food).
I don't think it's fair to disallow someone a pup based on an entire country when i would be willing to send a pup to the usa, or even uk, my own country where dog fighting, animal cruelty and neglect continues. China has more and more people buying dogs for pets and loving them. I have even seen reports of people native to china intercepting and rescuing dogs on lorries. I would like to get to know an individual, any individual before allowing them a pup over a course of a year. I'd just be ware of anyone i send a pup to regardless of where they live.

But that's assuming I make it as far as breeding...
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by balto13 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:18 pm

TerriHolt wrote:I have personally had a rethink since this old thread started. I have learned and grown some more...

I know (or the news here has reported) that china is aiming to have dog/cat meat taken off the menu within 10 years but that aside...

My main point for having a rethink is, there is animal cruelty all over the world not just china. There is animal cruelty where i live (someone got caught buying small mammals for live snake food).
I don't think it's fair to disallow someone a pup based on an entire country when i would be willing to send a pup to the usa, or even uk, my own country where dog fighting, animal cruelty and neglect continues. China has more and more people buying dogs for pets and loving them. I have even seen reports of people native to china intercepting and rescuing dogs on lorries. I would like to get to know an individual, any individual before allowing them a pup over a course of a year. I'd just be ware of anyone i send a pup to regardless of where they live.

But that's assuming I make it as far as breeding...
awe! very well said Terri :)

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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Tiantai » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:24 pm

While I am personally against the practice of dog-meat, I also find it offensive to assume that most Asian eat dogs - an ongoing problem I am having with some people here in Ontario myself. I had people ask me before from teenage years to college if some Chinese eat dogs and you can bet your ass I got pissed off at all of the ones who asked me this as a teen. I didn't even know about this practice when I was younger, but now to think about it, it's actually very rare now to find dog meat. Admittedly I have personally argued with some individuals on Weibo before who support this dog-meat business which is fading as we speak. But these people make up a very small population out of the entire China as a whole, most of them being elders. Figured it was a total waste of time to try and convert them, they live a different lifestyle and were born into a different world from ours and I'll probably never fully understand them since I'm as some had described a "white-washed imbecile from the west" :lol: which I take pride in that ;)

I've also been mortified by ignorant-based remarks during the SARS outbreak here. There were some folks going around saying "some of 'those people' eat raccoons, dogs, and rats and are passing the diseases on to the tourists" which got me really angry. To most people, this is clearly BS but there were a few uneducated baffoons who did believed this rumour and went off passing it around and eventually this crap broke out in the middle of the pandemic.
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by Booma » Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:29 pm

Tankerman wrote:Well for those who still think Hong Kong people are a bunch of dog eaters or dog abusers, I will educate them here:

1. There are animal cruelty laws in place to prevent and prosecute cases of animal abuse:

http://www.spca.org.hk/welfare/eng/lawlist.asp

2. There is a well-established kennel club, the Hong Kong Kennel Club, which is recognized by the FCI, AKC, CKC and JKC:

http://www.hkkennelclub.com.hk/english/newset_eng.html

3. Animal care is top-rated as well, with the respected Hong Kong Veterinary Association governing the vet practice in the city:

http://www.hkva.org/

My cousin's friend is actually an Akita breeder. Maybe I should tell him not to send any Akita pups to the US, after all, I heard in the news there is dog fighting going on there (http://nation.time.com/2013/08/26/dog-f ... -4-states/), that MUST mean dog fighting is rampant in the States right? Who knows whether someone might kidnap that Akita pup for dog fighting purposes?
Its already been said that this is a very old thread, and most people don't feel this way anymore. I understand your anger, but don't start getting silly and bitchy because that will just turn breeders off you if you carry on (my opinion)
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Re: Will there ever be a TDR Breeder in East-Asia?

Post by balto13 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:32 am

Kylievr wrote:
Tankerman wrote:Well for those who still think Hong Kong people are a bunch of dog eaters or dog abusers, I will educate them here:

1. There are animal cruelty laws in place to prevent and prosecute cases of animal abuse:

http://www.spca.org.hk/welfare/eng/lawlist.asp

2. There is a well-established kennel club, the Hong Kong Kennel Club, which is recognized by the FCI, AKC, CKC and JKC:

http://www.hkkennelclub.com.hk/english/newset_eng.html

3. Animal care is top-rated as well, with the respected Hong Kong Veterinary Association governing the vet practice in the city:

http://www.hkva.org/

My cousin's friend is actually an Akita breeder. Maybe I should tell him not to send any Akita pups to the US, after all, I heard in the news there is dog fighting going on there (http://nation.time.com/2013/08/26/dog-f ... -4-states/), that MUST mean dog fighting is rampant in the States right? Who knows whether someone might kidnap that Akita pup for dog fighting purposes?
Its already been said that this is a very old thread, and most people don't feel this way anymore. I understand your anger, but don't start getting silly and bitchy because that will just turn breeders off you if you carry on (my opinion)
as an American the comparison didn't offend me. I think it was a good comparison because there is a lot of dog fighting, and it doesn't always receive harsh punishment - Michael Vick is a good example - but the average American doesn't fight nor support the idea of fighting dog.

...Maybe, Tankerman, try telling us how YOU see Chinese people in China taking care of their dog. Tell us what it is like for dog companions in China ;) :) we only see what the internet shows us unfortunately, which I know isn't always a good way to get info. Do you know anybody who eats dog meat? what are your feelings on it? does it happen a lot? are their laws on it? How are companion dogs treated in China? AND, big AND, take a deep breath! :)

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