We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long post)

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We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long post)

Post by JenTehLuv » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:43 am

Hello all :D

It's a bit early to post this but my fiance and I would like to become the owners of a breeding dog for the US lines within the next year (hopefully). I know there are various lines in the US already but I'd like to get a unrelated dog so that the dams here could benefit new blood. Although dreaming about this is all well and good, we just don't know what breeder we should get our puppy from! We can't plan on getting a puppy (or even getting on a waiting list for a specific breeder) if we don't know where to look. Which is why I wanted to post this topic, in the hopes that this awesome community can help! I wanted to make this public so that everyone can have a chance to give their opinions and it'll be nice to have more than just 2-3 suggestions.

I've been a fan of the tamaskan since a long term friend of mine got both of hers and I got to watch them grow through facebook and such and doing my own research of the breed. I love their temperaments, their intelligence, and of course their wolfy looks. We wish to be apart of supporting this amazing breed of dog and becoming breeders ourselves one day. I've already consulted a few of the experienced breeders of the TDR community and some of the answers seem to clash with what another person has suggested. I want to help with the breeding process if I can by importing a puppy (be it from the Europe or Canada) since we can't use the US lines to do so.

However there are a few things to consider first. I want to be sure the puppy I get isn't related to the ones currently in the US and I'd like to have a puppy that isn't related to Jackal (since there is a lot of Jackal in the Tam lines already and I want to help diversify that. Plus some Jackal pups have health issues, not all but some). Which brings me to health; health is top priority and I would like to get a puppy that isn't at risk for being a carrier of DM, Cryptorchidism, bad hips, etc. Temperament is also very important but I imagine the TDR wouldn't allow breeders to use dogs that are aggressive in any manner and I always hear such wonderful things about all the current breeders that getting a puppy from any of the breeders would give bad temperaments.

With all this in mind, can you help us? Any suggestions at all to what breeder we should consider? Perhaps a specific dog from a breeder or a specific breeding combination? All opinions are welcome!

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Re: We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long p

Post by Katlin » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:40 am

My personal suggestion would be an outcross litter. Jackal is in 90% of lines in the USA and canada. It's actually nearly impossible to stay away from him (such an annoyance!) I know Hawthorne has a plan for a nice outcross as does Moondance in a few years. :)
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Re: We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long p

Post by Tiantai » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:34 pm

I'm sure that in the future there will be more outcrosses in North America as well, just don't know much right now. It's possible that an Alaskan Noble Companion Dog MIGHT be used if all health testing results on Noque is good.
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Re: We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long p

Post by Fenris » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:03 pm

Tiantai wrote:I'm sure that in the future there will be more outcrosses in North America as well, just don't know much right now. It's possible that an Alaskan Noble Companion Dog MIGHT be used if all health testing results on Noque is good.

Noque is stunning. If he is used as an outcrossing, his Tam puppies would probably pheno as the most wolflike to date IMO!

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Re: We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long p

Post by Katlin » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:19 pm

Tiantai wrote:I'm sure that in the future there will be more outcrosses in North America as well, just don't know much right now.
Those are the only two at the moment that the TDR has mentioned...personally I'd like a pup from both lol! If only... As for Noque you'll have to talk to Katelyn because I don't think she's sure either.
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Re: We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long p

Post by JenTehLuv » Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:24 pm

I know both moondance and basalt are hoping to use their dogs as outcrosses one day if they pass their health tests and such, but they would still be breeding with the dogs that currently exist in the US (unless they mate the two outcrosses together, which I dou t they would do lol). Which is why I wanted to know if there are possible breeders in Europe that we could get a puppy from instead.

On the other hand one if the breeders I spoke to said if I get a outcross from overseas that some if the breeders here could possibly not want to breed with them due to the fact that some breeders are using low content wolf dogs? I believe it was Germany correct?

I know there isn't a lot of Rann blood in the lines and was pushed towards that but what breeding combination could I get with that info? That's where we get stuck lol.

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Re: We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long p

Post by arianwenarie » Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:49 pm

A possibility would be a puppy from vom Wiesengrund's planned litter between Leska (Blustag Blue Rosalie) and Mika (Blustag Silver Cloud). http://tamaskan-vom-wiesengrund.jimdo.com/wurfplanung/

I am not sure which of the other breeders have been in constant contact with the Germany group, but I believe Rahne and Karen are keeping in touch. You could contact either of them for more information in case there is a language barrier.

Leska is out of Heidi x Rann; whereas Mika is out of Tumanra x Skye (?). A puppy out of this mating are somewhat related, but would possibly be a good fit for use in the US lines...bloodline-wise.

Alternatively, vom Muensterland is planning a mating between Fly and Magyuk. Fly is out of Summer x Bobbi (litter sister to Tarheel's Jaeger); Maguyuk is out of Tumanra x Banjo (uncle to Saxon puppies). A puppy from this mating may not be as ideal if you're looking solely for "fresh blood".

EDIT:
Since matchmaker is down, here's a mock pedigree of Wiesengrund's planned litter (someone correct me if pedigree is wrong :oops: ): http://www.familyecho.com/?p=START&c=q4 ... 9536565260

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Re: We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long p

Post by Tatzel » Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:50 pm

Fenris wrote:
Tiantai wrote:I'm sure that in the future there will be more outcrosses in North America as well, just don't know much right now. It's possible that an Alaskan Noble Companion Dog MIGHT be used if all health testing results on Noque is good.

Noque is stunning. If he is used as an outcrossing, his Tam puppies would probably pheno as the most wolflike to date IMO!
I would love to have a puppy from Noque... I am totally in love with how he looks, although I do not know much about his temperament.
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Re: We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long p

Post by arianwenarie » Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:52 pm

Tatzel wrote:
Fenris wrote:
Tiantai wrote:I'm sure that in the future there will be more outcrosses in North America as well, just don't know much right now. It's possible that an Alaskan Noble Companion Dog MIGHT be used if all health testing results on Noque is good.

Noque is stunning. If he is used as an outcrossing, his Tam puppies would probably pheno as the most wolflike to date IMO!
I would love to have a puppy from Noque... I am totally in love with how he looks, although I do not know much about his temperament.
I think there's a long line of folks wanting a Noque puppy (me being one of them). lol. I believe Katelyn said he can be a bit shy? Or, I may just be confusing him with Yarrow. :oops:

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Re: We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long p

Post by JenTehLuv » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:21 am

Thank you arianwenarie! I just wish the database was back up lol

Anyone else? Suggestions or requests? I know many people have that "dream litter" that they have in mind lol

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Re: We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long p

Post by Rahne » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:47 am

http://www.tamaskan-database.com/

The breeding between Leska and Mika is a bit too close for my liking... especially since it's grandfather Whitefang who is bred back on. But for the US it might be interesting.

If Ziva is bred another time in the future (after her litter with Avak) then Xantho might be used as stud, that could be a good mating. Though Ziva is 25% Saarloos Wolfdog so some of the American breeders might make a fuzz out of that, even though she is less wolfdog then the Tamaskan :roll:

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Re: We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long p

Post by HiTenshi16 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:48 pm

Rahne wrote:http://www.tamaskan-database.com/

The breeding between Leska and Mika is a bit too close for my liking... especially since it's grandfather Whitefang who is bred back on. But for the US it might be interesting.

If Ziva is bred another time in the future (after her litter with Avak) then Xantho might be used as stud, that could be a good mating. Though Ziva is 25% Saarloos Wolfdog so some of the American breeders might make a fuzz out of that, even though she is less wolfdog then the Tamaskan :roll:
I have no problem with it :)

Knowing that Macoon had passed his hips, would anyone know of any potential planned breeding a from him? I think he would be good for the US.
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Re: We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long p

Post by Katlin » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:16 pm

Rahne wrote:Though Ziva is 25% Saarloos Wolfdog so some of the American breeders might make a fuzz out of that, even though she is less wolfdog then the Tamaskan :roll:
Yeah we tend to get a bit worried when the dogs are illegal in our country :lol: :roll: :?
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Re: We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long p

Post by Booma » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:30 pm

Katlin wrote:
Rahne wrote:Though Ziva is 25% Saarloos Wolfdog so some of the American breeders might make a fuzz out of that, even though she is less wolfdog then the Tamaskan :roll:
Yeah we tend to get a bit worried when the dogs are illegal in our country :lol: :roll: :?
The saarloos is a recognised dog breed, so as long as dogs don't test positive for content (which they shouldn't seeing as the uc Davis test is for American wolves) I have no problem with it.
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Re: We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long p

Post by JenTehLuv » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:36 am

Some people may not want to risk the outcross, which I understand. Which is why I wanted to try and get a full blooded tam pup

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Re: We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long p

Post by balto13 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:09 am

JenTehLuv wrote:I know both moondance and basalt are hoping to use their dogs as outcrosses one day if they pass their health tests and such, but they would still be breeding with the dogs that currently exist in the US (unless they mate the two outcrosses together, which I dou t they would do lol). Which is why I wanted to know if there are possible breeders in Europe that we could get a puppy from instead.

On the other hand one if the breeders I spoke to said if I get a outcross from overseas that some if the breeders here could possibly not want to breed with them due to the fact that some breeders are using low content wolf dogs? I believe it was Germany correct?

I know there isn't a lot of Rann blood in the lines and was pushed towards that but what breeding combination could I get with that info? That's where we get stuck lol.
I would hope they wouldn't mate their dogs together, they are uncle and niece :shock: :lol:

I do not know which breeder you spoke to, but to not take it as a voice for ALL the breeders in the US (even if it is a majority its is not ALL). I almost made that mistake once and had I listened I would not be getting a tam ;) I am not saying to think about low content, as it can be controversial, and in some states illegal, but don't be afraid to think out the box - it's not like your ONLY choices for outcrosses are husky, ANCD and wolf hybrid ;) do some research, talk to MORE people one on one. Also, go to the database and put some elbow grease into it. If you use it right you can get a good idea of whose lines are pretty heavily spoken for in certain countries (that was advice that was given to me many many times by multiple people when I would ask the same questions). I think it'll be interesting to see how people take their lines within the next year because there are so many varying opinions on what should or shouldn't (can or can't) be added

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Re: We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long p

Post by JenTehLuv » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:40 am

I wasn't aware they are actually related, thanks for the info lol. I did consult a few breeders but I thought it would be a good idea to get the other community members opinions on the manner, especially those who are in the US (both breeders and potential owners alike).

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Re: We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long p

Post by balto13 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:15 am

JenTehLuv wrote:I wasn't aware they are actually related, thanks for the info lol. I did consult a few breeders but I thought it would be a good idea to get the other community members opinions on the manner, especially those who are in the US (both breeders and potential owners alike).
understood, and it's good to get a feeling for how current breeders want things :)

random: is your profile picture from "Ddautta (There she is!!)"?

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Re: We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long p

Post by Booma » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:22 am

balto13 wrote:
JenTehLuv wrote:I know both moondance and basalt are hoping to use their dogs as outcrosses one day if they pass their health tests and such, but they would still be breeding with the dogs that currently exist in the US (unless they mate the two outcrosses together, which I dou t they would do lol). Which is why I wanted to know if there are possible breeders in Europe that we could get a puppy from instead.

On the other hand one if the breeders I spoke to said if I get a outcross from overseas that some if the breeders here could possibly not want to breed with them due to the fact that some breeders are using low content wolf dogs? I believe it was Germany correct?

I know there isn't a lot of Rann blood in the lines and was pushed towards that but what breeding combination could I get with that info? That's where we get stuck lol.
I would hope they wouldn't mate their dogs together, they are uncle and niece :shock: :lol:

I do not know which breeder you spoke to, but to not take it as a voice for ALL the breeders in the US (even if it is a majority its is not ALL). I almost made that mistake once and had I listened I would not be getting a tam ;) I am not saying to think about low content, as it can be controversial, and in some states illegal, but don't be afraid to think out the box - it's not like your ONLY choices for outcrosses are husky, ANCD and wolf hybrid ;) do some research, talk to MORE people one on one. Also, go to the database and put some elbow grease into it. If you use it right you can get a good idea of whose lines are pretty heavily spoken for in certain countries (that was advice that was given to me many many times by multiple people when I would ask the same questions). I think it'll be interesting to see how people take their lines within the next year because there are so many varying opinions on what should or shouldn't (can or can't) be added

Jac, i think youre a bit confused. Basalt is Noque. Youre thinking of Arrow.
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Re: We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long p

Post by balto13 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:46 am

Kylievr wrote:
balto13 wrote:
JenTehLuv wrote:I know both moondance and basalt are hoping to use their dogs as outcrosses one day if they pass their health tests and such, but they would still be breeding with the dogs that currently exist in the US (unless they mate the two outcrosses together, which I dou t they would do lol). Which is why I wanted to know if there are possible breeders in Europe that we could get a puppy from instead.

On the other hand one if the breeders I spoke to said if I get a outcross from overseas that some if the breeders here could possibly not want to breed with them due to the fact that some breeders are using low content wolf dogs? I believe it was Germany correct?

I know there isn't a lot of Rann blood in the lines and was pushed towards that but what breeding combination could I get with that info? That's where we get stuck lol.
I would hope they wouldn't mate their dogs together, they are uncle and niece :shock: :lol:

I do not know which breeder you spoke to, but to not take it as a voice for ALL the breeders in the US (even if it is a majority its is not ALL). I almost made that mistake once and had I listened I would not be getting a tam ;) I am not saying to think about low content, as it can be controversial, and in some states illegal, but don't be afraid to think out the box - it's not like your ONLY choices for outcrosses are husky, ANCD and wolf hybrid ;) do some research, talk to MORE people one on one. Also, go to the database and put some elbow grease into it. If you use it right you can get a good idea of whose lines are pretty heavily spoken for in certain countries (that was advice that was given to me many many times by multiple people when I would ask the same questions). I think it'll be interesting to see how people take their lines within the next year because there are so many varying opinions on what should or shouldn't (can or can't) be added

Jac, i think youre a bit confused. Basalt is Noque. Youre thinking of Arrow.
AAHHH! gotcha, yea, Noque and Teyah aren't related! yea, I was confused and thinking of Arrow *DERP* :oops: :lol: :shock: :roll: must be the heat! (can I use that as an excuse?! :lol: )

JenTehLuv: I don't know if Moondance has any plans or interest in Noque at Basalt - they haven't announced, discussed or brought up the subject in public at all

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Re: We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long p

Post by JenTehLuv » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:19 pm

Balto13- Yes it's from There she goes! I've always loved the cartoon and even grew up with it over the years as they slowly released episodes (to this day I always listen to Cake Dance on my birthday). Of course the last "episode" always gets me to cry lol.

Wait, so Noque and Teyah aren't related? Well that's good at least. I was wondering why they'd use two outcrosses so closely related, especially if the pups they produce we're expected to be able to mate with one another lol.

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Re: We want to become breeders one day. Help please! (long p

Post by Hawthorne » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:36 pm

Arrow and Teyah are Uncle and Niece. They are both Alaskan huskies. Noque is an ANCD, a different breed :D

And yes, we plan on using both Arrow and Teyah. Not on each other, of course. But in the dog world, uncle and niece aren't as "closely related" as in human terms. Just as siblings are not the same dog, uncle and niece are not the same dog and so there will be fresh genes from both.

I'm fairly certain that Dylan will be used on Teyah. Beyond that they have not planned. However, we are all talking about long term breeding plans. It's essential for planning the future of the breed in the US. Plus, Teyah is only 8 months old so it's a little early for them to worry about who her first stud will be. LOL She has to pass her health testing yet. Although Arrow passed his with flying colors: hips: 6, elbows: 0. He goes in for his CERF in a couple of weeks.

If you could get in the database and do some research, take a look at breadth of pedigree rather than just depth. (look at the siblings of the dogs in one particular pedigree) It will quickly become clear how closely related all of the Tams are. Plus it's a good exercise for any breeder to do on their breeding stock. It helps to plan breedings to know as much as you can about what is behind your dog. And not just health but structural faults as well.

Good luck to you!
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