Arrow

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:29 pm

Dani wrote:You know what would be really nice? If we could find a few breeders of some of the various breeds, like the hedlund huskies, shilo shepherds, and whatever other out cross breeds that are on the table. Then ask them to participate in a live/recorded video study of their dogs in their home, kennels or play yard.

It would be very nice to not only meet these breeds but more so, to be able to monitor them in a more day to day scenario. Like Hawthorn does with their puppy live cams. -- Say you have a kennel yard and a play yard, you have.. 10+ dogs. Wire up a few cameras at least one on the kennels and another on the play yard. It will give viewers a REAL look into that breeds behaviors. How they really interact day to day, and a look at many of them at once. Sort of like a breed assessment project. You really just never know a breed until you deal with them day to day. Even then, you need to deal with a few of them, as we know, dogs are individuals and one might have such a wonderful personality, were as the next is a fence fighter. ...Take Siberian Huskies for example, I had a few bloodlines that I had to TRIPLE fence to keep them from ripping their neighbor through the kennel fence during feeding time. Yet on the flip side of the coin, one of my other bloodlines could be trusted ALONE with cats and off leash recall.

If this WAS a possibility, I'd want to review a few different breeders kennels, of various bloodlines of that breed. It would help give more predictability to what exactly is being put into the dogs we already have. I really don't know if this could even be done, It's just one idea.

Arrow has already been approved pending health testing. Arrow's hip results came back over the weekend. He is a BVA 6. So I will move forward and do his DM test (which doesn't run in the lines, but I will do it anyway) as well as the DNA Parentage test. I did spend four days with her dogs and honestly, I don't think you could ask for anything more. These dogs are absolutely wonderful. My opinion of course, but I think Teresa agrees, too.

AZDehlin wrote: Perfect, a working dog that is also a good companion at the end of the day. Your keeping one of the Freyja x Arrow pups right?

You bet we're keeping one!

balto13 · Post by **balto13** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:07 pm

Hawthorne wrote:
Arrow has already been approved pending health testing. Arrow's hip results came back over the weekend. He is a BVA 6. So I will move forward and do his DM test (which doesn't run in the lines, but I will do it anyway) as well as the DNA Parentage test. I did spend four days with her dogs and honestly, I don't think you could ask for anything more. These dogs are absolutely wonderful. My opinion of course, but I think Teresa agrees, too.

Points Unknown has some litter mates, parents, and one grandparent (some other relatives) of Arrow still don't they? will you also be doing their hips scores/health certs to get a better overall idea of health in this breeds background (other than "they're healthy, how could they not be healthy if they run sleds?")? outside source temperament and structure (congrats on the awesome BVA score!!

) ?

Not to say that the lack of any of the above will make him less of an out cross, the US needs some new blood lines desperately, just curious (honestly)

will anybody in the US import in the near future? the US can only out cross for so long, and get away from tam x tam matings more and more - I could very well be daft and it would be in the best interest to out cross for a few more years

Eventide · Post by **Eventide** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:32 pm

Hawthorne wrote:Arrow has already been approved pending health testing. Arrow's hip results came back over the weekend. He is a BVA 6. So I will move forward and do his DM test (which doesn't run in the lines, but I will do it anyway) as well as the DNA Parentage test. I did spend four days with her dogs and honestly, I don't think you could ask for anything more. These dogs are absolutely wonderful. My opinion of course, but I think Teresa agrees, too.

AZDehlin wrote: Perfect, a working dog that is also a good companion at the end of the day. Your keeping one of the Freyja x Arrow pups right?
You bet we're keeping one!

Umm, did you get another dog when Teresa got Teyah?

Will this be an outcross litter? Hope so, would love to see the results.

arianwenarie · Post by **arianwenarie** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:11 am

Dottie wrote:
Hawthorne wrote:Arrow has already been approved pending health testing. Arrow's hip results came back over the weekend. He is a BVA 6. So I will move forward and do his DM test (which doesn't run in the lines, but I will do it anyway) as well as the DNA Parentage test. I did spend four days with her dogs and honestly, I don't think you could ask for anything more. These dogs are absolutely wonderful. My opinion of course, but I think Teresa agrees, too.

AZDehlin wrote: Perfect, a working dog that is also a good companion at the end of the day. Your keeping one of the Freyja x Arrow pups right?
You bet we're keeping one!

Umm, did you get another dog when Teresa got Teyah? Will this be an outcross litter? Hope so, would love to see the results.

I think Points Unknown Kennel is allowing Hawthorne to use Arrow at stud...?

Eventide · Post by **Eventide** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:22 pm

arianwenarie wrote: I think Points Unknown Kennel is allowing Hawthorne to use Arrow at stud...?

Oh wow

So this will be an outcross litter (assuming health tests are good).

What awesome pups those two will make.

Cornelia1986 · Post by **Cornelia1986** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:38 pm

Does anyone have a link to some Arrow pics?

Eventide · Post by **Eventide** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:05 pm

http://www.points-unknown.com/team.htm

darazan · Post by **darazan** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:51 pm

Arrow's a beautiful dog, though I wish there were some full body pictures of him.

Cornelia1986 · Post by **Cornelia1986** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:29 pm

Dottie wrote:http://www.points-unknown.com/team.htm

Thanks

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:11 pm

If we are friends on Facebook, I have a TON of photos of him from my visit to Points Unknown. I also submitted all of those photos to the TDR along with a formal proposal for his approval as a Foundation Dog.
And at the moment there are really no lines in Europe that we don't have here in the US. As US breeders, we are working together and in fact, just held a meeting at our Annual Breed Show. A lot goes on behind the scenes and while we don't share everything, the US does produce a newsletter which I will be sending out in the next couple of weeks. The newsletter only goes to our members, however. There have to be perks!
Honestly, the only "import" I would consider right now is Ravi's sperm.
And no, I don't plan on hip scoring all of Arrow's relatives. Why would I go to that expense? The dogs Europe are using / considering haven't done this so why should I be held to a higher standard? Arrow's niece, Teyah, will eventually be hip scored. But in all honesty, yes, having a 60 year history of dogs working in harness who work until they are 10 years old or older does speak to their hip health. And Arrow's BVA hip and elbow results only confirm this. I paid for his hip tests myself--which is very unusual. But he means that much to me because I think he has a lot to offer the breed. His structure is impeccable and there is absolutely no epilepsy, Addison's or eye issues in her lines. I think that's incredibly exciting!

Anyhow, this is getting off topic--perhaps someone could break this off as a discussion about Arrow? I'm happy to answer more questions.

Whispyr · Post by **Whispyr** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:04 pm

Hey,

I was wondering about the pup you were planning on keeping, were you thinking a male or a female would fit better into your program?

Post by **Nino** » Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:16 pm

There is a (possibly older?) dog at points unknown which just recently got diagnized with some eye disease which eventually can make him/her blind, any comments on this dog and the relationship to Tayah and Arrow?

balto13 · Post by **balto13** » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:01 am

I think that is his half sister, and so teyahs aunt? I was wondering about that issue too because I saw that what P.U. said the diagnosis can be (there are two possibilities) both are genetic and there is no test for carriers, only sufferers (I believe)

arianwenarie · Post by **arianwenarie** » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:22 am

It looks like Zala (Tuloon/Bazil) is half-sister to both of Arrow's parents (Topa/Oken). Topa (Tuloon/McKenzie) and Oken (Tuloon/Bazil) are half-siblings; Oken being Zala's full brother.

Teyah is out of Ilo/Irish...and Ilo is full sister to Arrow. I'm not going to even attempt to figure out the correct terminology of the relationships. lol. Someone correct me if this info is wrong - it was gleaned from P.U.'s website.

Here's what I found on corneal dystrophy from Google: http://www.eyecareforanimals.com/animal ... rophy.html

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:35 pm

Whispyr wrote:Hey,

I was wondering about the pup you were planning on keeping, were you thinking a male or a female would fit better into your program?

I was considering keeping a girl. It is much easier to keep a bunch of related females than to add multiple males. We are working on creating our "line" here and I want to keep a bunch of Freyja pups. She throws some very nice puppies. I'm sure there will be a boy that goes to a breeding home, too. And we can use Arrow on more than one Tamaskan female (including Raven if she passes her hips).

As for the eye issue, I wish you folks would have contacted me directly to give me a heads up. I don't have the time to check the forum every single day. I have contacted Linda about this and will go from there. We are also discussing this in the breeders section--so have no fear. We strive to do the right thing by the breed.

AND the eye issue has not had an official diagnosis and is the result of an injury. There are no documented eye issues in the Hedlund.

I really feel like by posting this in the forum and not writing to me is a bit on the malicious side. Please consider your actions prior to posting. If we are all truly working together to better the breed these concerns and questions should be going through John, the US TDR Rep., and not just on the forum.

TeresaC · Post by **TeresaC** » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:02 pm

As Teyah's owner, I am very aware of the issue and am in direct contact with Points Unknown. At this time, all diagnosises are only speculation. Until Zala is seen by the eye specialist, there is no reason to start speculating and getting everyone upset that the Hedlund is carrying genetic eye diseases. Zala's eye was also injured during a cani-cross adventure into the backwoods in some thick brush. So there are a lot of different things that could be going on. Linda is sharing to share, not to provide a history on her breed or concern about the rest of the dogs. For those of us who have met Zala and know her personally, we like to know what is happening with these dogs.

After the 5 hour trip to the specialist and the 5 hour trip back, I am sure that a lot of questions will be resolved. Until then, it is all rumor and speculation. I agree with Tracy that if there is concern, please ask directly instead of creating more drama that is at this time unfounded.

HiTenshi16 · Post by **HiTenshi16** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:21 am

I don't think their posts were meant to be malicious or speculation, but concern after reading about the post that was seen by Points Unknown on Facebook

We got a tough diagnosis for Zala at the vet today. She's got corneal dystrophy which is a degenerative eye disease that will eventually cause blindness. It's been a rough morning. We do have an appointment with a specialist in the Twin Cities next week to learn more. In the meantime, we'll be preparing her for what could occur at any time. She's going to love being a house dog full time. We don't plan to take her out of harness, however, we must train her with her potentially new limitations. She'll do just fine.

I think we also must remember that many will find something about any outcross considered that they would worry about being brought into the breed whether it is temperament, health, or/and looks, even if it is just one dog related to the line being considered to be used.

HiTenshi16 · Post by **HiTenshi16** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:36 am

I also wanted to add, my guess for the reason to post their questions and concerns here rather than emailing, is because others may have the same questions and it is easier for everyone to see the answers and news at once so it is not "so and so said this" then "oh! I did not hear about that!"... Also easier than having to answer the same question over and over. Hope that makes sense (at least from my perspective)

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:41 pm

But I don't check this often...so this sat there for several days. It could have sat here for weeks with no answer and really let things stew. And it would have stewed for no good reason, and rumors have started. Too late now! I'm not opposed to public discussion but when something is very timely then the curtious thing to do would be to contact the involved parties directly, too. I have a financial investment in this dog now and I would hope that others would at least have an emotional investment as well--in the interest of the breed.
Put yourself in my position and think about how this would make you feel: lack of direct communication, heresay, presenting speculation as fact, leaving out critical facts (injury). I'm sure you'd feel the same way. And might I remind everyone that there have been no documented eye issues in this breed's history. There have been no cases of epilepsy or Addison's. And no cases of genetic illness. I still think this is a very promising prospect, if not the best, for the US right now.
Anyhow, of course we will share Zala's diagnosis. But regardless, we are looking for a convenient way to have Arrow CERF'ed. We at least have time on our side as this breeding is planned for next March. But it is a 5 hour drive, one way, from Hovland to St. Paul / Minneapolis. I can't expect the owner to drop everything and make this trip.

Tiantai · Post by **Tiantai** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:14 pm

Aww Arrow is such a beautiful husky. I hope to see some healthy and wolfish looking pups from this line

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:53 pm

Zala's condition was misdiagnosed. She went to an eye specialist in St. Paul and she has Pannus.
From what I can find, it is uncertain if pannus is genetic or not.
Regardless we will have Arrow CERF'ed even though the closest clinic for her is a 10 hour round trip. Hopefully they can fit it in their schedule between now and March.

Post by **Nino** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:19 pm

I would like to remind people (and by this I mean everyone!) to be careful to be so invested in things that they automatically see any question as an attack because there You might be in the defensive. My question was a question of concern and has nothing to do with being malicious. I know that several others was concerned about this matter and therefore I put a question down here where MOST possible people would get a chance to read it and in the future search the forum for questions like this.

I have no bad intent in mind, but I also personally have more than enough to do real life than write everyone personally every time there is a possible question and more so I do personally after the death of my only Tamaskan feel as motivated to contacting people personally anymore. But as my position at the moment I still need to be aware what is going on and therefore try to be so.

Truth be said, I did not sit and wait for an answer, I have not been in the forum since I posted the question, and I did find that there was more than enough time for it to be answered when you (Hawthorne) got into the forum and read it. I actually do not spend a lot of time in front of my computer at all these days.
What I really feel like saying, with no mean intend or other thing like that is "relax" and "chill out", it was just a question.
An important topic when considering the fact that this is an outcross that is being considered though... so of course people (myself included) are concerned..

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:10 pm

I'm sure you understand that I am invested because I am paying for his health testing myself. Each of us are invested in our breeding dogs to some degree--whether emotionally or financially. I guess I just see this as a more delicate matter than to post uncertainties.

I have more news about Pannus. It cannot be detected / diagnosed with a CERF test. Zala's Canine Opthamologist stated that Pannus is linked to UV exposure and a high protein diet. Both of which are what Zala has experienced in her 10 years. These are true sled dogs: kept outside and run in the bright sunlit snow conditions. This, coupled with the lack of other related dogs exhibiting signs or being diagnosed with Pannus makes me believe that Arrow is extremely low risk, if any risk at all.

I submitted the facts directly to the TDR. I intend to have Arrow CERFed anyhow because he is a husky, after all. But I intend to use him as a stud for Freyja's next litter. I am out of stud dogs here in the US unless I do a repeat breeding. There is no point in doing a repeat breeding as dogs from both of her previous litters went to breeding homes. Therefore, to maximize the benefit to the breed I am choosing to use a different stud dog each and every time I breed her. For the betterment of the breed.

I just ask each of you to be aware that there is no such thing as a perfect dog. And although some might be upset that I still intend to use Arrow, I believe it to be a calculable risk, and a very minor one at that.

YouTube · Post by **Sylvaen** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:46 pm

Hawthorne wrote:Both of which are what Zala has experienced in her 10 years.

"Zala is from the Tuloon/Bazil 2007 litter." So that would make her 6 years old.

http://www.points-unknown.com/team.htm

Either way, hopefully this isn't a genetic issue and, if it is, hopefully Arrow won't be affected (or be a carrier).

Tiantai · Post by **Tiantai** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:46 pm

I believe some wolves who live in areas where the ungulate populations have been overly-inflated by humans are also at risk of getting Pannus. Of course, in the wild this is usually weeded out by nature plus the wild animals don't often live long.

I hope Arrow is alright

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:25 pm

Sylvaen wrote:
Hawthorne wrote:Both of which are what Zala has experienced in her 10 years.
"Zala is from the Tuloon/Bazil 2007 litter." So that would make her 6 years old. ).

Oops. I assumed when Linda told me Zala is sibs with Oken that they were the same age.

Gaby · Post by **Gaby** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:20 pm

I hope Arrow won't be affected or be a carrier either! Hopefully he is at a low risk. I think it is good you don't do a repeat mating but put much effort in searching for a suitable male. He is beautiful and how is his character? (Maybe you already explained it and I missed it though..)

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:56 pm

Gaby wrote:I hope Arrow won't be affected or be a carrier either! Hopefully he is at a low risk. I think it is good you don't do a repeat mating but put much effort in searching for a suitable male. He is beautiful and how is his character? (Maybe you already explained it and I missed it though..)

Hi Gaby,
There is no way to test him to see if he is a carrier. The CERF eye exam will be done on him, but that doesn't look for, diagnose or indicate in any way that he has or would or could develop Panus. The affected dog, Ziva, is his Aunt--so not closely related. Arrow's father is healthy, his mother is healthy and his siblings are healthy.
His temperament is absolutely fantastic. He is friendly, sweet, calm and gentle. I don't know how to explain it, but he is like an "old soul." At only 18 months he was absolutely incredible when I met him.
Thanks for the questions. His owner has stated that it is convenient for her to take him to St. Paul / Minneapolis this fall for his CERF eye exam. If his eyes are good, I will proceed to have his DM test done (though the disease does not exist in these lines) as well as the DNA parentage test.
We are looking at next March for a breeding though it depends on Freyja's timing. She should have gone into heat by now as she has been a very regular seven months. I do wonder if the c-section hasn't affected her cycle. I have also heard horror stories of females being spayed on the table without the owners consent, and the only way they found out was by their female never going into heat again. So, we'll see I guess.

weylyn · Post by **weylyn** » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:41 am

Hawthorne wrote: (though the disease does not exist in these lines)

Because DM is one of the oldest diseases and have lines that have generations that have nothing and then suddenly a sufferer ( and some can have been sufferers but never shown because they died before ) in many breeds you can't say it doesn't exist if it was never tested.....But it is very good to know that it have never shown in these lines

So am hopefull on that.

Hope his CERF will be ok too

balto13 · Post by **balto13** » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:41 am

Hawthorne wrote:
His temperament is absolutely fantastic. He is friendly, sweet, calm and gentle. I don't know how to explain it, but he is like an "old soul." At only 18 months he was absolutely incredible when I met him.

how is he outside of the kennel(points unknown kennel/location/run I am unsure of how to word it.LOL) and in unfamiliar places, with other dogs, and in big crowds?

Hawthorne wrote:I do wonder if the c-section hasn't affected her cycle. I have also heard horror stories of females being spayed on the table without the owners consent, and the only way they found out was by their female never going into heat again. So, we'll see I guess.

OH NO! that is illegal isn't it? I hope the person you took her to wouldn't do something that unethical, or is that standard practice to spay a female and not ask for owners consent or tell them post op?

YouTube · Post by **Sylvaen** » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:58 am

balto13 wrote:
Hawthorne wrote:I do wonder if the c-section hasn't affected her cycle. I have also heard horror stories of females being spayed on the table without the owners consent, and the only way they found out was by their female never going into heat again. So, we'll see I guess.
OH NO! that is illegal isn't it? I hope the person you took her to wouldn't do something that unethical, or is that standard practice to spay a female and not ask for owners consent or tell them post op?

Luckily, my vet allows me to 'stand in' and, if necessary, help out if a cesarean is needed - especially when there are a lot of puppies! (All hands on deck!) Plus, I'm much more nervous about the whole surgery if I am waiting in the waiting room or at a nearby cafe... I much prefer to participate as it takes my mind off worrying and gets me involved.

This way I am also right there in case anything goes wrong, so I know immediately and they couldn't possibly perform a secret spay without me knowing.... not that they would without my consent - it is highly illegal.

balto13 · Post by **balto13** » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:19 pm

Sylvaen wrote:
balto13 wrote:
Hawthorne wrote:I do wonder if the c-section hasn't affected her cycle. I have also heard horror stories of females being spayed on the table without the owners consent, and the only way they found out was by their female never going into heat again. So, we'll see I guess.
OH NO! that is illegal isn't it? I hope the person you took her to wouldn't do something that unethical, or is that standard practice to spay a female and not ask for owners consent or tell them post op?
Luckily, my vet allows me to 'stand in' and, if necessary, help out if a cesarean is needed - especially when there are a lot of puppies! (All hands on deck!) Plus, I'm much more nervous about the whole surgery if I am waiting in the waiting room or at a nearby cafe... I much prefer to participate as it takes my mind off worrying and gets me involved.

This way I am also right there in case anything goes wrong, so I know immediately and they couldn't possibly perform a secret spay without me knowing.... not that they would without my consent - it is highly illegal.

I was thinking it would be illegal, how awful!

when my dog got surgery on her knee cap I got to watch, I didn't think it would make me feel better but it did! I got to see how much they care and how hard they work

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:22 pm

balto13 wrote:
Hawthorne wrote:
His temperament is absolutely fantastic. He is friendly, sweet, calm and gentle. I don't know how to explain it, but he is like an "old soul." At only 18 months he was absolutely incredible when I met him.
how is he outside of the kennel(points unknown kennel/location/run I am unsure of how to word it.LOL) and in unfamiliar places, with other dogs, and in big crowds?

He is very good in large groups and especially with other dogs. In fact, Linda told me when she took him to obedience class there was a dog there who was frightened and a little snippy with other dogs. Arrow went over to him and laid down on the floor next to him and this helped the dog calm down. He just has that effect. I was ready to dog nap him (just teasing), and Neil (Linda's husband) said "No, you can't have him." when I first met Arrow. HA!

balto13 wrote:
Hawthorne wrote:I do wonder if the c-section hasn't affected her cycle. I have also heard horror stories of females being spayed on the table without the owners consent, and the only way they found out was by their female never going into heat again. So, we'll see I guess.
OH NO! that is illegal isn't it? I hope the person you took her to wouldn't do something that unethical, or is that standard practice to spay a female and not ask for owners consent or tell them post op?

Yes of course it's wrong. But I've heard of it happening and it's unsettling. I don't suspect my vet of doing this but after hearing this happened to other people it certainly crossed my mind. There are vets out there who are completely against any breeding of dogs at all. So I would guess that having a reproductive vet is even more important in that respect. But even then, my vet asked me, while Freyja was on the operating table, if we wanted to spay or do a biopsy. Because it was only her second litter and because this is a rare breed and because she took Best of Breed in 2012, I felt that the best option was to do the biopsy. The vet agreed. They did the biopsy and everything came back normal (no necrosis, no bacterial infection). If it had not, we would have had her spayed in the best interest of her health.

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:28 pm

Sylvaen wrote:Luckily, my vet allows me to 'stand in' and, if necessary, help out if a cesarean is needed - especially when there are a lot of puppies! (All hands on deck!) Plus, I'm much more nervous about the whole surgery if I am waiting in the waiting room or at a nearby cafe... I much prefer to participate as it takes my mind off worrying and gets me involved.

This way I am also right there in case anything goes wrong, so I know immediately and they couldn't possibly perform a secret spay without me knowing.... not that they would without my consent - it is highly illegal.

I asked if I could help rub puppies, etc. and they said they had enough vet techs (and they did! They knew I was on my way over an hour in advance because it is an hour drive to our Repro Vet's office). I would have liked to help but I suppose some people might make things worse. Because it was an emergency c-section, perhaps they thought I would get in the way. I deferred to their expertise. I have to admit--the people in the waiting room helped me keep my mind off of the surgery. Apparently, all hands really were on deck because patients continued to back up in the waiting room during Freyja's surgery. I made new friends and thankfully no one was upset about having to wait. I still feel so very lucky that we saved those pups and Freyja's life that day. Thank goodness for white carpet, or I wouldn't have known there was an emergency.

Tiantai · Post by **Tiantai** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:17 pm

May Nirvana secure the puppies for many years to come. I almost had a heart attack reading about this

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:45 pm

^ Thank you Lucas.

On another note, Freyja is in heat, and now Raven is too--so that's progress I suppose. Meanwhile, poor Darwin... LOL

Whispyr · Post by **Whispyr** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:44 am

Hawthorne wrote:^ Thank you Lucas.

On another note, Freyja is in heat, and now Raven is too--so that's progress I suppose. Meanwhile, poor Darwin... LOL

So female dog's can get on the same schedule like people?

Glad to hear that all is well with the group though. Even the happy torture Darwin must endure. ^^

YouTube · Post by **Sylvaen** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:58 am

Whispyr wrote:So female dog's can get on the same schedule like people?

Yes, synced cycles: the magic of hormones in action...

Czertice · Post by **Czertice** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:01 am

Could someone please post here some conformation shots of Arrow?

I hope the breeding will be successfull!

Tiantai · Post by **Tiantai** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:05 am

Czertice wrote:Could someone please post here some conformation shots of Arrow? I hope the breeding will be successfull!

Same here, waiting patiently

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:13 am

Oh boy. Well I didn't take "perfect conformation photos" while I was visiting, but here goes:
He has a good shoulder set, good rear angulation, a beautiful head, etc. etc. He has a "bad tail" by our standards but his mother and father and grandparents have straight tails--so it's possible he can have progeny with straight tails. Freyja's tail is straight so we should get a mix.
Arrow goes for his CERF this Friday. Cross your paws!

Tiantai · Post by **Tiantai** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:19 am

Well I wouldn't be worried about that tail. I know that Blaze had a tail that was slightly off but all of his descendants today have perfect tails.

As for Arrow's other parts of his physical form, I think he's absolutely gorgeous and would love to see puppies with his colours and form. Admittedly, he doesn't look so wolfish to me though my personal bias is due in part to my past interactions with true wolfdogs and coywolves. Nevertheless, he is a handsome dog and I hope to see his pups on the webcam when they are out.

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:23 am

Personally, I think he looks more "wolfy" than Darwin or any other male Tam I have seen in person. No offense male US Tamaskan!

His temperament is to die for. He is a big teddy bear.

arianwenarie · Post by **arianwenarie** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:46 am

Tiantai wrote:Well I wouldn't be worried about that tail. I know that Blaze had a tail that was slightly off but all of his descendants today have perfect tails.

That's not quite true...Blaze had a snap tail as you can see from a couple pictures here (pictures 1 and 5). Not to be offensive, but I wouldn't call a snap tail "slightly off"...I'd consider a sickle tail to be "slightly off".

Out of his descendants, I can tell you that, at the very least, Tarheel Harlequin (Zelda) @ HiTenshi has a bad tail. I am not sure if any more of his descendants inherited a bad tail...sickle tails are OK, but Zelda definitely has a curly tail.

Hawthorne wrote:Personally, I think he looks more "wolfy" than Darwin or any other male Tam I have seen in person. No offense male US Tamaskan!
His temperament is to die for. He is a big teddy bear.

Arrow is very handsome indeed! Gorgeous head...

It does appear he has smaller ears and long legs...is that true?!

Booma · Post by **Booma** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:11 am

He looks quite tall. How big is he?

Czertice · Post by **Czertice** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:22 pm

Pretty! I hope the CERF test goes great and his genes join the Tamaskan gene pool:]

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:08 pm

arianwenarie wrote:Arrow is very handsome indeed! Gorgeous head... It does appear he has smaller ears and long legs...is that true?!

He is quite large. I didn't measure him but I"m sure he's bigger than Darwin (and Darwin is 85 pounds right now). I should post a photo of me sitting next to him. Keep in mind that I'm only 5'3". Arrow's kennel breed standard calls for "rangy" which translates to tall and leggy. His owner swears that our breeds are one in the same (if not only half jokingly) they do resemble one another quite a bit.

But yes, his ears are small, his stop is slight (which I LOVE), his legs are long, he has an agouti coat, has very good bone, and has a very loving personality and was a great working dog. I would take him home for my own without even a thought. But Linda loves him very much: he's her prized husky so there's no way.

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:09 pm

Czertice wrote:Pretty! I hope the CERF test goes great and his genes join the Tamaskan gene pool:]

Thank you. That's very sweet of you to say so. There is no epilepsy or Addison's in Arrow's lines (60 years of written health records)--so it's very exciting!

Tatzel · Post by **Tatzel** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:00 pm

Oh man, what a pretty doggie!
I agree, I find him more wolfy looking than some of the Tams... he has nice ears, great masking, neat colors and looks pretty friendly!

Hope he's going to contribute to the breed if he's gonna get allowed for crossbreeding!

Post by **Nino** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:35 pm

nice legs on him for sure

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