New outcrosses?

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by chelle784 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:41 pm

That's also another reason for my Finnish Lapphund cross suggestion as I believe the dog in the photo I attached was bigger than they normally are. Seeing as the tamaskan roots go back to Finland I thought maybe possible outcrosses could include some of the Finnish breeds (including huskies as someone also mentioned)

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Sylvaen » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:42 am

chelle784 wrote:That's also another reason for my Finnish Lapphund cross suggestion as I believe the dog in the photo I attached was bigger than they normally are. Seeing as the tamaskan roots go back to Finland I thought maybe possible outcrosses could include some of the Finnish breeds (including huskies as someone also mentioned)
It's a good idea... perhaps Finnish Lapphund X GSD or Finnish Lapphund X WSS, for instance. It all depends what such a mix would look like and, of course, temperament / character... and health tested bloodlines too...
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Hawthorne » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:49 am

chelle784 wrote:Not sure if this has already been suggested but what about some of the other Finnish breeds? This is my cousin's Finnish Lapphund. Although he is probably too fluffy he still has the mask, his sister is a red colour so they come in other colours. He also has small ears. However he does have a curly tail like huskies, but maybe a finnish lapphund cross would be suitable? Not sure about now but when they first got him there were only 2 breeders in the UK but i'm assuming they are more common in Finland.
Is that an adult dog in the photo? If an adult, that's a lot of bone on that dog! I'm not sure we want heavy bone... that's more of a malamute thing. Hmm...curious, though.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by chelle784 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:08 am

Yes it is a 10 year old dog its all fur - way too much for a tamaskan! Which is why I wonder if a cross breed would work. I don't know much about the other Finnish breeds and I understnad outside of Finland they aren't as common. I understand Finnish lapphunds are easily trained and family pets. his recall would work with anyone as well - my sister and I as young teenagers at the time took him out on a walk by ourselves (he didn't know us well at the time) and were cmfortable knowing that if we said his name once he would come back straight away despite the other dog and people distractions. Not sure if he was just really well trained or whether this is something easily trainable in this breed (moreso than say some huskies)

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Vajente » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:02 am

just a note, the dog in your picture is a tan-point(at) that's where the masking comes from
but I believe they do come in wolfgrey?

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by aerowrx » Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:30 am

Just curious becuz i would like to learn....Isn't it dangerous for the breed for us to start naming any dogs for outcrossing? How did internationally kennel recognized breeds like huskies, golden retrievers, gsd, etc. Establish in gene pool and population over the past few hundred years with limited inbreeding?

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Booma » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:48 am

aerowrx wrote:Just curious becuz i would like to learn....Isn't it dangerous for the breed for us to start naming any dogs for outcrossing? How did internationally kennel recognized breeds like huskies, golden retrievers, gsd, etc. Establish in gene pool and population over the past few hundred years with limited inbreeding?

The breed won't survive without outcrosses. Once the breed is recognised the stud books will close and we won't be able to add any new blood.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by aerowrx » Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:26 pm

Well then I guess its kind of conflicting to be able to be recognized as a breed and not building a larger foundation

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Sylvaen » Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:51 pm

aerowrx wrote:Well then I guess its kind of conflicting to be able to be recognized as a breed and not building a larger foundation
This is why the TDR is not (yet) seeking official recognition for the breed (at this time) with any organization that requires a closed studbook (aka no out-crossing allowed). The breed is still far too limited with too few bloodlines: too little genetic variety and a very small genepool... closing the studbook now would be a disaster for the breed and it likely wouldn't survive. However, there are a couple of legitimate organizations out there that do allow open stud books, and hopefully the Tamaskan breed will be officially recognized by those organizations in the near future. :)
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Tiantai » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:02 am

Well I do know that there are some public security organizations such as the 公安局 (Gōng-ān-jú) or Public Security Bereau in China who have recognized some working dog breeds but still allow open studbooks as long as the potential outcross' pedigree and certain health background (hips, eyes, and desired temperament) is known and that it does not screw up the main purpose of the working breed. The PBS recognized the Kunming wolfdog as an official breed in 1988 but even after its recognition that breed was still being backcrossed with German Shepherds due to their extremely low numbers at the time. However, unless the breed finds its way into the Chinese Police K9 Service after the TDR finally has a club in China, it is very unlikely that they will be the organization to recognize the Tamaskan breed. Plus the PSB might start adding Kunming into the genepool if a subgroup that breeds the Kunming gets their hands on any Tamaskan dogs that they see are a great fit for the Chinese Search and Rescue squad.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Tiantai » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:31 am

Moving on, I wonder if the Sulimov dog would make a good outcross. I read that this jackdog hybrid is used in Russian Airports to sniff out explosives due to its sharp sense and that they have a mix of Lapponian Herders, Siberian Huskies, and a diluted golden jackal content. While the F1 jackdogs from the first crossbreeding between the exotic canids and the herders were hard to train, the temperament was said to have drastically improve in the F3 hybrids after backcrossing them with the Siberian Huskies. But admittedly I'll have to go on with more research on this breed.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by arianwenarie » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:44 am

Tiantai wrote:Moving on, I wonder if the Sulimov dog would make a good outcross. I read that this jackdog hybrid is used in Russian Airports to sniff out explosives due to its sharp sense and that they have a mix of Lapponian Herders, Siberian Huskies, and a diluted golden jackal content. While the F1 jackdogs from the first crossbreeding between the exotic canids and the herders were hard to train, the temperament was said to have drastically improve in the F3 hybrids after backcrossing them with the Siberian Huskies. But admittedly I'll have to go on with more research on this breed.
Not to come off as offensive, Lucas, but if there are folks out there who don't even want to see more CWD/Saarloos added in (which are considered dog breeds, but with more recent wolf content), why on earth would they be OK with adding jackal-dog mixes???

I apologize if I've offended you (or anyone else), Lucas....it's just that I can be rather blunt at times (this being one instance..lol).

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by aerowrx » Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:12 am

Tiantai wrote:Moving on, I wonder if the Sulimov dog would make a good outcross. I read that this jackdog hybrid is used in Russian Airports to sniff out explosives due to its sharp sense and that they have a mix of Lapponian Herders, Siberian Huskies, and a diluted golden jackal content. While the F1 jackdogs from the first crossbreeding between the exotic canids and the herders were hard to train, the temperament was said to have drastically improve in the F3 hybrids after backcrossing them with the Siberian Huskies. But admittedly I'll have to go on with more research on this breed.
Seems to be rare dog breed and not easy to get a hold of. I ran into a guy who had a jackal hybrid and it was one of the most obedient dogs I've seen even when facing a cat

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Nimwey » Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:20 pm

The only time I've actually seen the Sulimov dog, in a documentary they were featured in, the breeder clearly stated that he will never sell his dogs to the public (correct me if I'm wrong, it was in "Science of Dogs" and I can't find it now). And I can't see what they would add to the Tamaskan anyway.
Small, curly-tailed, lots of strange colors, and then of course the Jackal blood.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Katlin » Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:33 pm

I agree, why would some people not want wolf content, but be ok with Jackal content? I think the TDR is looking for domestic dogs that don't have random mixes in them. Their breed standard (from what I can find) basically accepts everything and I can't find any mention of health testing....Doesn't sounds like a good mix at all.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Tiantai » Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:46 am

This isn't about the appearance. To clarify, I was thinking that assuming that more Tamaskans are recruited for the Search and Rescue organizations, I thought perhaps the mixing of the Sulimov breed may improve the workability of those lines involved in sniffing out trapped people/items. I think the golden jackal portion may actually come in handy rather than screw up the breed. Jackals have very sharp senses and that can come in handy for rescuing people. Although pure jackals are not trainable for Search and Rescue, the Sulimov dogs are now generations away from those pure golden jackals and have mostly dog in them. Besides, with the Tamaskan crossbreed in its early stage, I have said before that I personally believe that to take a step away from the appearance for a generation or two may be worth it for improving the breed and I think the Sulimov dogs can help promote any lines that may be bred for the Search and Rescue task in the future. Of course, I'm aware that getting one of those dogs is very difficult much like the Lupo Italiano breed but not impossible. I don't think a bit of semi-exotic content is that bad to be honest, although I understand that not too many are comfortable with the fact that we already have wolf-contents in some line but as long as those contents get diluted and kept at a small level, why should they be looked at as ruining the breed? It's not like I'm encouraging dishonesty (pretending there is none) which is what the Blus have done and are still doing. I think any dogs with recent semi-exotic contents should be shipped only into places where they are legal like British Columbia, Yukon, Nunavut, Northwest Territories, Alberta, and Saskatchewan whereareas those without it or are many generations away from it can be shipped anywhere like in Ontario, Manitoba, Quebec or New Brunswick.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Booma » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:27 am

Tiantai wrote:This isn't about the appearance. To clarify, I was thinking that assuming that more Tamaskans are recruited for the Search and Rescue organizations, I thought perhaps the mixing of the Sulimov breed may improve the workability of those lines involved in sniffing out trapped people/items. I think the golden jackal portion may actually come in handy rather than screw up the breed. Jackals have very sharp senses and that can come in handy for rescuing people. Although pure jackals are not trainable for Search and Rescue, the Sulimov dogs are now generations away from those pure golden jackals and have mostly dog in them. Besides, with the Tamaskan crossbreed in its early stage, I have said before that I personally believe that to take a step away from the appearance for a generation or two may be worth it for improving the breed and I think the Sulimov dogs can help promote any lines that may be bred for the Search and Rescue task in the future. Of course, I'm aware that getting one of those dogs is very difficult much like the Lupo Italiano breed but not impossible. I don't think a bit of semi-exotic content is that bad to be honest, although I understand that not too many are comfortable with the fact that we already have wolf-contents in some line but as long as those contents get diluted and kept at a small level, why should they be looked at as ruining the breed? It's not like I'm encouraging dishonesty (pretending there is none) which is what the Blus have done and are still doing. I think any dogs with recent semi-exotic contents should be shipped only into places where they are legal like British Columbia, Yukon, Nunavut, Northwest Territories, Alberta, and Saskatchewan whereareas those without it or are many generations away from it can be shipped anywhere like in Ontario, Manitoba, Quebec or New Brunswick.
There's taking a step back in looks and then theres being silly. In my opinion, taking a step back in looks would be to add a dog such as a white swiss shepherd - some pups may turn out white, or have poor masking, but wss have a nice temperament, good backs and (usually) good tails. Buying from a good breeder you also know that the dogs come from a health tested background with a traceable pedigree.

Wikipedia also says there are only 40 of these dogs in existence and all belong to the one person/company.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Tatzel » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:27 am

I have to say I hate that registered breeds have closed studbooks and don't allow any outcrosses. There are so many breeds now with a much too small genepool, causing genetical defects in any new offspring that could be easily avoided by just freshening up the bloodlines, but nope, stubborn breeders and organisations just won't allow any outcrosses to make those breeds better and healthier, it's so idiotic imo.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Nino » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:02 pm

Tatzel wrote:I have to say I hate that registered breeds have closed studbooks and don't allow any outcrosses. There are so many breeds now with a much too small genepool, causing genetical defects in any new offspring that could be easily avoided by just freshening up the bloodlines, but nope, stubborn breeders and organisations just won't allow any outcrosses to make those breeds better and healthier, it's so idiotic imo.
Not all breeds have closed stud books even the registered and recognized ones :)
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Tana » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:36 pm

About workability: Volkec (Jodie/Jackal) is really an amazing working dog for SAR, precisely because of higher wolf-content. It is sad, that his owner stopped with trainings. But he is a little more difficult to handle, not for everyone. Depending on what anyone wants.

I am definitely for it to keep and building workability (in some lines), that the breed has become popular for people, who want a working dog too, not only nice wolfy-looking family pet.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Sylvaen » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:46 pm

Tana wrote:I am definitely for it to keep and building workability (in some lines), that the breed has become popular for people, who want a working dog too, not only nice wolfy-looking family pet.
The trick is to find a balance between the two (working dog vs family pet) so that everyone can be happy. Obviously some bloodlines are better suited to working than others, and that is also fine - on the other hand, not everyone wants a working dog. They can be much more energetic (higher work drive) and therefore more difficult to handle, compared to a companion dog for a family that has young children (for instance) or an elderly couple thar isn't so active anymore. The Tamaskan should remain a versatile breed but that's also why it's important for breeders to carefully match up each individual puppy from each litter (with regard to bloodline) with the owner/family that would suit them best in terms of temperament / character / energy level / planned activities / etc... :)
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Tiantai » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:12 pm

True, I'd rather keep the studbook open for 4-8 decades before recognition so that we have LOTS of different lines and good diversity. Seeing how so many recognized breds have become screwed up due to the lack diversity, I think it is too soon to have the Tamaskan recognized at the moment.

The Hedlund huskies and Seppala Huskies are both technically Siberian Huskies but they were both bred specifically for sled-pulling. However, they are also quite uncommon. Though if we can more of those with the best temperament, health, and desirable physical form, it would add more fresh genes to the Tamaskan breed.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Tana » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:23 pm

Yep, I know and I totally agree with you! It is just my wiew of it- I am in love in working lines (in every breed 8-) ). If we have the potential, it is a shame, that we do not take advantage of.
Tiantai wrote:True, I'd rather keep the studbook open for 4-8 decades before recognition so that we have LOTS of different lines and good diversity. Seeing how so many recognized breds have become screwed up due to the lack diversity, I think it is too soon to have the Tamaskan recognized at the moment.
Second this.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Booma » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:15 pm

If we keep adding husky breeds then the tamaskan might as well become another husky breed.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Tiantai » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:47 pm

Kylievr wrote:
If we keep adding husky breeds then the tamaskan might as well become another husky breed.
Better to have huskies than upper wolf-content wolfdogs ;)
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by balto13 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:18 pm

Tiantai wrote:
Kylievr wrote:
If we keep adding husky breeds then the tamaskan might as well become another husky breed.
Better to have huskies than upper wolf-content wolfdogs ;)
I don't understand why you think those are the only two choices.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by HiTenshi16 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:32 pm

balto13 wrote:
Tiantai wrote:
Kylievr wrote:
If we keep adding husky breeds then the tamaskan might as well become another husky breed.
Better to have huskies than upper wolf-content wolfdogs ;)
I don't understand why you think those are the only two choices.
^ What she said ^
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by arianwenarie » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:43 pm

HiTenshi16 wrote:
balto13 wrote:
Tiantai wrote:Better to have huskies than upper wolf-content wolfdogs ;)
I don't understand why you think those are the only two choices.
^ What she said ^
+1.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Booma » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:07 am

Yup agree. Even if we weren't going to add any other dog breeds there would still be low content ad.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Katlin » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:25 am

balto13 wrote:
Tiantai wrote:
Kylievr wrote:
If we keep adding husky breeds then the tamaskan might as well become another husky breed.
Better to have huskies than upper wolf-content wolfdogs ;)
I don't understand why you think those are the only two choices.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Tiantai » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:08 am

Read carefully, NO WHERE did I say that those are the only two choices. I could have said "better to have GSD than upper wolfdogs" or I could have said better to have any other breeds or even "better to have low-wolf contents than true wolfdogs" but the comment I wrote BEFORE that was talking about the Hedlund and Seppala huskies.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Booma » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:19 am

Tiantai wrote:Read carefully, NO WHERE did I say that those are the only two choices. I could have said "better to have GSD than upper wolfdogs" or I could have said better to have any other breeds or even "better to have low-wolf contents than true wolfdogs" but the comment I wrote BEFORE that was talking about the Hedlund and Seppala huskies.

You could have given those examples, but you didn't. Besides that, noone is adding a high content wolf dog into the breed, so the comparison isn't a very good one.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Hawthorne » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:21 pm

Tiantai wrote:The Hedlund huskies and Seppala Huskies are both technically Siberian Huskies but they were both bred specifically for sled-pulling. .
Actually, the Hedlund Husky is a specific line of Alaskan Husky--not a Siberian.
Kylievr wrote:If we keep adding husky breeds then the tamaskan might as well become another husky breed.
My reasoning for adding a husky breed is because my dogs are more "GSD-ish" than many other Tams out there. Freyja will benefit from this breeding, I am sure of it. And I am certainly not wanting to create another husky breed. Just because we add some here and there doesn't mean we intend to go down that path. Just as those adding wolfdog content are not creating a new wolfdog breed. As we develop our standard more, we should define what sets the Tamaskan apart from it's foundation breeds. This is how the selection process begins for pups and breeding stock. The specific type of husky we intend to use is not the Siberian you all are familiar with. He is very, very different in his behavior. Please know that I submitted a very detailed proposal to the TDR to get permission. These decisions are not taken lightly as they will ripple through the breed for many years to come.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Sylvaen » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:55 pm

Hawthorne wrote:My reasoning for adding a husky breed is because my dogs are more "GSD-ish" than many other Tams out there. Freyja will benefit from this breeding, I am sure of it. And I am certainly not wanting to create another husky breed.
Yep... I have the opposite "problem" - my girls (Vega and Vala) are very husky-ish, thanks to the influence of Jasper and Sampo. So, in their case, I am looking for more GSD-ish type Tams and outcrosses (Marxdorfer, etc). As for Zora, she is more GSD-ish (like Freyja) so I would consider AI with Arrow for her. It's all about finding the right balance for your specific bloodlines / individual dogs. ;)
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by firleymj » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:58 pm

Recently had the opportunity to meet with someone who owns Native American Village Dogs (I think I got that right). Both of hers remind me of a shaggier, shorter Tamaskan, but they seemed to be very well mannered (don't know if that's a breed characteristic or just a lot of "good parenting") :D

Anyway, my boy is a while from "breeding" but I did think these dogs had some potential (at least from a CURSORY, OUTSIDE, uninformed (and potentially ignorant) newbie view point).

The following link is posted for informational purposes only and does NOT constitute advocacy or a warranty of factuality or sanity in the preceding remarks: :ugeek:

http://www.indianvalleykennels.com/NAVD-parents.html
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Booma » Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:25 pm

Hawthorne wrote:
Tiantai wrote:The Hedlund huskies and Seppala Huskies are both technically Siberian Huskies but they were both bred specifically for sled-pulling. .
Actually, the Hedlund Husky is a specific line of Alaskan Husky--not a Siberian.
Kylievr wrote:If we keep adding husky breeds then the tamaskan might as well become another husky breed.
My reasoning for adding a husky breed is because my dogs are more "GSD-ish" than many other Tams out there. Freyja will benefit from this breeding, I am sure of it. And I am certainly not wanting to create another husky breed. Just because we add some here and there doesn't mean we intend to go down that path. Just as those adding wolfdog content are not creating a new wolfdog breed. As we develop our standard more, we should define what sets the Tamaskan apart from it's foundation breeds. This is how the selection process begins for pups and breeding stock. The specific type of husky we intend to use is not the Siberian you all are familiar with. He is very, very different in his behavior. Please know that I submitted a very detailed proposal to the TDR to get permission. These decisions are not taken lightly as they will ripple through the breed for many years to come.
I was talking in general, not about anyone in particular. I wasn't meaning arrow or teyah, just saying to Lucas, who seemed to want to add more of these dogs, that if these are all we add, the tam will just become another husky breed.
Does that make sense? Its the middle of the night.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by aerowrx » Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:52 pm

IMO it seems lots of tams appear too GSDish right now. I was telling my uncle about tams and him being a gsd owner just said it looks like a gsd face

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Booma » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:49 am

aerowrx wrote:IMO it seems lots of tams appear too GSDish right now. I was telling my uncle about tams and him being a gsd owner just said it looks like a gsd face

What dogs are you looking at? Some look a little GSDish, others not so much.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Katlin » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:03 am

Wylie looks quite shepherdy, I'd probably use him (when / if I can) with a more husky-like tam.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by aerowrx » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:43 am

Kylievr wrote:
aerowrx wrote:IMO it seems lots of tams appear too GSDish right now. I was telling my uncle about tams and him being a gsd owner just said it looks like a gsd face

What dogs are you looking at? Some look a little GSDish, others not so much.
I might have easier time pointing out the ones that don't look as much gsd. Which lines are known to have wolf content in them?

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Booma » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:30 am

http://www.100loyalfaces.com/2013/09/03 ... -tamaskan/
What about my dog? He has tested negative for wolf content. I don't think he looks like a gsd.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by aerowrx » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:39 am

Kylievr wrote:http://www.100loyalfaces.com/2013/09/03 ... -tamaskan/
What about my dog? He has tested negative for wolf content. I don't think he looks like a gsd.
Nice looking dog. He doesn't really look gsd to me either

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Czertice » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:16 am

Kylievr wrote:http://www.100loyalfaces.com/2013/09/03 ... -tamaskan/
What about my dog? He has tested negative for wolf content. I don't think he looks like a gsd.
He is beautiful!
(And you had to wait ten months to meet him, wow. No wonder nobody is willing to send Czechoslovakian Wolfdog puppies to Australia - a month in carantine must be hard.)
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by balto13 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:32 am

Katlin wrote:Wylie looks quite shepherdy, I'd probably use him (when / if I can) with a more husky-like tam.
I really have to give you kudos publicly now Katlin, for his "mom" to be openly so objective and still so very apparently loving and accepting of him is not only refreshing but inspiring! I have heard people talk about "needing to see their dogs flaws and qualities objectively to breed" and have yet to meet many tam breeders capable of doing such the way you do! Thank you! :) :) :) :)

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Nino » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:10 am

No doubt that Sølve was more Husky.. both in temper and in looks..

Only when she was small people guessed GSD (because of the coloring, when she was a tiny pup people said fox -_- ) but when adult everyone said Husky or husky mix..
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Sylvaen » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:13 am

Jasper looked like a GSD mix when he was a puppy / young adult... now that he's older, you can definitely see the husky in him (curled tail, masking, eyebrows, etc)... though he does have GSD-ish ears... :lol:
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Katlin » Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:24 pm

balto13 wrote:
Katlin wrote:Wylie looks quite shepherdy, I'd probably use him (when / if I can) with a more husky-like tam.
I really have to give you kudos publicly now Katlin, for his "mom" to be openly so objective and still so very apparently loving and accepting of him is not only refreshing but inspiring! I have heard people talk about "needing to see their dogs flaws and qualities objectively to breed" and have yet to meet many tam breeders capable of doing such the way you do! Thank you! :) :) :) :)
Oh, why thank you! Much appreciated :)

Kylie: I think Balto looks a lot more wolfy than my guy in the build department. He's got a lovely stance (from what I can see) and a nice big head. I think he's a more huskyish tamaskan, whereas Wylie is definitely more GSD. With that said I can definitely see husky characteristics in Wylie (head shape, looooong tail, paws, etc).
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by AZDehlin » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:51 pm

My Zephyr defiantly is very husky like, smaller and boxier in body, his tail curls over his back, he has zero recall, and really needs a job. Pluses is he has smaller ears, and the proper length tail, is built to work and compliments my active lifestyle. For him I need more of a Shepherd like dog, I just haven't found one I am interested in yet.

As for Noque he is defiantly more Shepherd like. He is long in body, his tail is too long and ears are too big, he doesn't have as much pulling/working drive as i would like. Pluses are he has a straight tail and he has a better size, he is better with commands and has great recall. For him I need a husky like dog, still waiting for a great outcross litter that has the qualities best for him.

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Re: Arrow

Post by HiTenshi16 » Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:15 pm

Hawthorne wrote:Someone suggested that the US create a fund for testing potential outcross dogs rather than have it be up to the individual wanting to use the dog. I think that's a nice idea but I wonder if we could all agree on which dogs should be tested. After all was said and done, it was not a cheap date to get all of Arrow's health testing done to only have three pups result. I've mentioned before, but it would be nice if people planning on using Arrow could help out with his testing a little bit. If not, I feel like I'm being taken advantage of a little bit…
I really do like the idea of a fund being created for testing potential outcrosses, but how would we set that up? Would there be a way for some of that money to go back to you since you did all of Arrows?
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Tatzel » Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:59 pm

I would really love to see some ANCD being added, looking at Yarrow, he looks very wolfy in build and facial shape even though he's solid black.
Noque has a more square-ish muzzle, but his color and build are both splendid.

I still also think that a long muzzled type of collie would benefit the breed, both in looks and temperament-wise. It would be great if an outcross could happen sometimes.
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