New outcrosses?

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by HiTenshi16 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:15 am

Merged the topic "To give the Tamaskan a wolfier look. . ." to this since it fits in here ;)
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Re: To give the Tamaskan a wolfier look. . .

Post by AZDehlin » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:51 am

Sylvaen wrote:
AZDehlin wrote:The ANCD (another wolfy looking breed) has used greyhounds in their creation and they do give that breed a wolfier over all body type.
I remain skeptical about the ANCD "creation story"...
Really? I don't doubt her after talking to her, also her dogs are way leggy and some of their heads. I will go look at her facility before I decide I will get a ANCD of my own.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Kootenaywolf » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:15 pm

I took care of a husky/greyhound (or possibly husky/whippet) fairly recently. Very interesting dog. She was pretty independent/catlike in some ways, however she was quite good offleash and had a decent recall. Her tail was pretty curly, but overall she had quite an exotic look. Her eyes were incredibly almond-shaped (though very dark). Here are some photos I took while she was here.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Tatzel » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:24 pm

Wow she looks great :D
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Hawthorne » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:40 pm

Just thinking about the logistics of getting new foundation stock...

Would we want to cross a different dog to a female Tam, or use a different mix or breed female with a male Tamaskan? It would seem to me that the latter choice might be easier. Females have so few breedings, while males it could be hundreds of litters (theoretically). How many of us would offer up or female Tamaskan to another dog to breed her in hopes of creating foundation stock? It may be easier to purchase a female mix intended for creating future foundation stock.

And whatever the decision--what about the resulting pups? I would think a portion would be hand selected by a panel of people to go on and be foundation dogs for the Tam. I wouldn't want to make the judgement on the litter all by myself--and I'm sure others wouldn't either. I would want more "professional" eyes to evaluate the pups. I think it wouldn't be very fair to sell the entire litter as "potential future" foundation dogs.

Of course if we used something like a Sarloos (my vote!) or a NI or Ute (also my vote) as opposed to a dog with unknown lineage there would be more pups in the litter who could be future foundation stock, I would think, because these breeds are so similar to the Tam already. I've meant to sit down and compare breed standards and see what the differences are...

But Weylyn & Karen, I am so glad to see you here again. I remember you from the first forum :)
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Ciaobella » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:54 pm

Love the greyhound/husky! I'm liking the idea more and more. I just think a dog that is a little more aloof will help with the SA. The greyhounds I have met (use to volunteer for a rescue) were for the most part quiet, friendly, and a bit more on there own. A personality I see as a benefit. And as Debbie said there hips are excellent. I wouldn't mind taking a resulting pup of the cross.

Aren't NIs & Sarloos prone to severe SA as well?
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Sylvaen » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:14 pm

Ciaobella wrote:I just think a dog that is a little more aloof will help with the SA.
A dog that is aloof can still have bad SA...
Jasper can be quite aloof (especially with strangers: not wanting to be petted etc) but when he was young he also had SA.

I like the look of the husky/whippet as far as body construction but I'm not sure how long it would take to get the 'wolfy' look back - the masking and coloring are quite bold / defined.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Nino » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:22 pm

that husky/whippet reminds me of a mixed dog that I know of..

This one is however Husky x Danish/Swedish Farmdog
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Nino » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:24 pm

@Hawthrone
I would be willing to do a Tamaskan mix breeding with my bitch.. if the mix was something I would like a pup from myself (and I have no problem at all about getting a possible FD dog or just genuine Tamaskan Mix if it was a mix that I would think would be what I want in a dog)
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Tiantai » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:24 pm

Ciaobella wrote:
Aren't NIs & Sarloos prone to severe SA as well?
Well it mostly depends on the individual dog's personality and not exactly the breed alone. Social anxiety comes in many forms as well and they usually depend on the environment and the quality of how they are socialized.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Gaby » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:37 pm

Sylvaen wrote:
Ciaobella wrote:I just think a dog that is a little more aloof will help with the SA.
A dog that is aloof can still have bad SA...
Jasper can be quite aloof (especially with strangers: not wanting to be petted etc) but when he was young he also had SA.
I did not read everything, but wanted to react to this. That a dog is aloof does not usually help with SA. Some dogs/breeds that are aloof tend to be even more pack orientated than other dogs/breeds, like the Tamaskan or wolfdogs for example. ;)

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Gaby » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:42 pm

fangjingtuanlucas wrote:
Ciaobella wrote:
Aren't NIs & Sarloos prone to severe SA as well?
Well it mostly depends on the individual dog's personality and not exactly the breed alone. Social anxiety comes in many forms as well and they usually depend on the environment and the quality of how they are socialized.
No, that it is not true, it does not mostly depends on the individual dog. Separation anxiety is also genetic. Environment and the quality of how they are socialized does help of course, but some breeds are certainly more prone to SA than other breeds. That also counts for social anxiety or being aloof towards strangers. But a dog from a breed that is known as social could have social anxiety because a lack of socialization. It works in both ways.

About the Greyhound, I like them for their structure, but I don't know if it would be wise to add them regarding their preydrive. The greyhounds I know have a lot of hunting instinct. Also they can't be motivated very well regarding training. Maybe a cross between a Greyhound and something else would be possible, but I'm thinking more about a Greyhound x some kind of Shepherd than a Greyhound x an independent (polar) breed for example. Besides character there are also other things to think about, their short coat and colour for example.

And Hawthorne, yes, I would definately like to use Mila for an outcross if I find a suitable male.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Valravn » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:56 pm

If you want an outcross that look pretty "Tamaskan-y" already how about the Hedlund Husky?

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Gaby » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:12 pm

Pretty dog, how is the character?

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Ciaobella » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:22 pm

Maybe aloof wasn't the right word. Laid back might have been the better choice.

However I dont know if looks should be of concern (I mean it should just not right now). You need function first so eventually looking for tamaskan look a likes will give you a dead end. I wouldn't worry about the looks at this point as long as the breeds main probłems are addressed. Not just with a greyhound outcross but any. You can also breed for looks down the road.

I also think the prey drive can help in away. I'm sure it could be bred out but it could also help with the breed workability, perhaps (?)

Not aimed at anyone point of view in particular but if we keep nit picking we will never get anywhere. Every breed has its flaws.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Sylvaen » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:40 pm

Valravn wrote:If you want an outcross that look pretty "Tamaskan-y" already how about the Hedlund Husky?

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Points-Un ... 7455110274
http://www.points-unknown.com/kennel.htm
Cool :D
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Gaby » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:41 pm

Ciaobella wrote:Maybe aloof wasn't the right word. Laid back might have been the better choice.

However I dont know if looks should be of concern (I mean it should just not right now). You need function first so eventually looking for tamaskan look a likes will give you a dead end. I wouldn't worry about the looks at this point as long as the breeds main probłems are addressed. Not just with a greyhound outcross but any. You can also breed for looks down the road.

I also think the prey drive can help in away. I'm sure it could be bred out but it could also help with the breed workability, perhaps (?)

Not aimed at anyone point of view in particular but if we keep nit picking we will never get anywhere. Every breed has its flaws.
Laid back is indeed a better choice, than I agree with you completely. ;)

Looks are no big concern for me, I would take a few steps back regarding the looks if it means that the temperament, especially separation anxiety and hunting instinct would be better. I can't see the hunting instinct and trainabillity improving when a Greyhound is added, sorry. Maybe a mix would be possible thought. ;) I would still like to see some kind of Shepherd (mix) added.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Valravn » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:42 pm

Hedlund Husky Description
TEMPERAMENT
When introduced to strangers, the adult Hedlund Husky may range from reserved to bold, but is never aggressive toward humans or other dogs. The dog may seek guidance from his/her owner, but reserves the right to make his or her own decision.

The Hedlund husky can be slow to develop a bond with new humans, but once the bond is created s/he is intensely loyal. With familiar people, the Hedlund Husky is bold, playful and enthusiastic. Working Hedlund Huskies are very cooperative, easy to manage and eager-to-please their mushers. Hedlund huskies possess the full range of canine 'body language' and their communications are very clear to those trained to recognize them. Once a strong bond has occurred, the Hedlund Husky can be intensely affectionate.

The Hedlund Husky is among the most versatile of sled dogs, and copes with changing circumstances and demands well. The Hedlund Husky is equally comfortable and content living in his or her owner’s home, in a kennel with numerous other dogs, or camped alongside a wilderness trail.

Hedlund Huskies display affection toward, and seek affection from humans with whom they have bonded, but are rarely clingy or needy. They are highly intelligent, especially in regards to problem solving. This makes them excellent escape artists, yet they are not inclined to wander far from an owner with whom they've established a bond.

Although Hedlund Huskies can be vocal when very excited and will participate in kennel-wide “howls”, they are usually not prone to nuisance barking.


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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Gaby » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:52 pm

Valravn wrote:Hedlund Husky Description
TEMPERAMENT
When introduced to strangers, the adult Hedlund Husky may range from reserved to bold, but is never aggressive toward humans or other dogs. The dog may seek guidance from his/her owner, but reserves the right to make his or her own decision.

The Hedlund husky can be slow to develop a bond with new humans, but once the bond is created s/he is intensely loyal. With familiar people, the Hedlund Husky is bold, playful and enthusiastic. Working Hedlund Huskies are very cooperative, easy to manage and eager-to-please their mushers. Hedlund huskies possess the full range of canine 'body language' and their communications are very clear to those trained to recognize them. Once a strong bond has occurred, the Hedlund Husky can be intensely affectionate.

The Hedlund Husky is among the most versatile of sled dogs, and copes with changing circumstances and demands well. The Hedlund Husky is equally comfortable and content living in his or her owner’s home, in a kennel with numerous other dogs, or camped alongside a wilderness trail.

Hedlund Huskies display affection toward, and seek affection from humans with whom they have bonded, but are rarely clingy or needy. They are highly intelligent, especially in regards to problem solving. This makes them excellent escape artists, yet they are not inclined to wander far from an owner with whom they've established a bond.

Although Hedlund Huskies can be vocal when very excited and will participate in kennel-wide “howls”, they are usually not prone to nuisance barking.

They are beautiful and there are a few dogs at the website that I like better than some Tamaskan lookswise, but it is a full pull sleddog. They are kept in kennels, so I can't see any information about how they do it at home, for example when they are the only dog in the household. I don't know if that is a great idea regarding the temperament, but never met them, so who knows. ;)

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Booma » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:48 pm

Ciaobella wrote:I'm thinking try and find a more naturally independent breed like the Afghan Hound or Shiba Inu (maybe not those but personality wise) to help with the SA.
The afghan is a sight hound like the grey hound, so prey drive could be a bog issue there.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Gaby » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:08 pm

Kylievr wrote:
Ciaobella wrote:I'm thinking try and find a more naturally independent breed like the Afghan Hound or Shiba Inu (maybe not those but personality wise) to help with the SA.
The afghan is a sight hound like the grey hound, so prey drive could be a bog issue there.
And the trainabillity in general from the Shiba (who has also a lot of hunting instinct) and the Afghan is not so good. ;)

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Hawthorne » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:21 pm

Oh, boo! I made a post and it disappeared....

[edit: try to summarize what I wrote...]

Are there any northern breeds without prey drive? How realistic is this goal if there aren't northern breeds without prey drive?

Please don't take this the wrong way--but as far as dog breeding goes--aren't breeders supposed to breed true to type first? That is--wouldn't selecting for certain behaviors (low prey drive, absence of separation anxiety) be backwards? Please don't take offense--I'm asking honestly here. I tend to ask the hard questions that come off wrong...

Anyhow, I guess I would not want to see a dog brought in as a foundation dog that didn't already have a very similar appearance to that of a Tam. I think including a greyhound, because it is a sighthound, would only increase prey drive, wouldn't it?

And one last idea: we had Darwin's last obedience class this past Tuesday night. The instructor got out a child's toy: a ball with a fake squirrel tail attached. The ball has batteries inside and when you switch it on, it rolls around and makes the tail spin and twirl. None of the dogs in class were disinterested. They were all very intent on that toy! A chocolate lab, a border collie mix, our Tam and a pit mix all wanted to *get* that toy. Isn't it a dog thing? Prey drive, that is? I realize there are varying degrees, but if we breed it out--no fetching. One of the TT tests we did with pups was to roll a wadded up paper ball to see if they would chase it (at 49 days old) to assess prey drive. I like playing fetch with my dogs and I guess wouldn't want to see that bred out. Thoughts?
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Nino » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:28 pm

The Hedlund huskies are quite handsome.. it is btw. a line of Alaskan huskies to those of you that don't know who were made by a couple of people (Nels and Rose) with the lastname Hedlund..

I could really go for the 2011 litter from Point Unknown Kennels, but it seems that they do not sell puppies to people "outside their group" if ya know what I mean :)
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Ciaobella » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:08 pm

Gaby wrote:
Kylievr wrote:
Ciaobella wrote:I'm thinking try and find a more naturally independent breed like the Afghan Hound or Shiba Inu (maybe not those but personality wise) to help with the SA.
The afghan is a sight hound like the grey hound, so prey drive could be a bog issue there.
And the trainabillity in general from the Shiba (who has also a lot of hunting instinct) and the Afghan is not so good. ;)
Yeah I posted that before I saw the greyhound post and my point was not to use those breeds but to use personalities like those breeds. I do not think either would be a good choice but I'm not sure if I have ever heard of either being a sufferer of severe SA.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Booma » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:22 am

I suppose any breed could develop SA. I looked after my uncles heeler while looking for a new home for her and she had pretty bad SA (which he did not warn me about and my house got quite destroyed while I tried to find her a new home)
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Hiwatari » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:55 am

I know Lynn wasn't for my girl Sora, but if you guys would like a puppy from her (after testing) It would be a Native American Indian Dog X Aatu Tamaskan crossed with a American Alsatian. First gen Kayo Inu with at lest a 6 gen paper if not more to back track. My girl Rin wouldn't come with as nice of a background as I have no clue past her parents. Just an offer. For black phase and a line with nothing to do with Tamaskan. My Native American Village Dog, Hikari will be crossed with a
Alaskan Noble Companion Dog or a German Shepherd. Sora should be in 1-2 year and Hikari 2-3 years from now after all test.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by sky » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:00 am

My rook has severe SA when I take his brother away to the vet without him! Howls and howls and howls. Poor kid loves his big brother!

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Nino » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:12 am

Kylievr wrote:I suppose any breed could develop SA. I looked after my uncles heeler while looking for a new home for her and she had pretty bad SA (which he did not warn me about and my house got quite destroyed while I tried to find her a new home)
Any breed can develop SA, but some breed (eg. the Tamaskan) are more prone to this than other breeds because it is something both affected by environment and genetics..
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Hiwatari » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:15 am

Aww poor Rook.

My girl Hikari seems to be fearful of everyone but me. The moment she seens me she connected to me. After having her for a bit, she has to follow me around. If I'm not home. She doesn't mind anyone. She will go up for pets, but that is about it. My Niece chases her when I'm not around, making her very fearful of her. I got her at 7 months and I'm preatty sure they only took her out if needed. She wasn't even kapt up on her shots only having them at 8 and 13 weeks old. But she loves the other dogs and their helping her along. Like her fear of going throw door ways. Now she runs in and out. After two car rides she started jumping in the car on her own over me having to pick her up.

Sora by far wasn't cared for right. I don't know what happened to her. I got her at 10 months. She warmed up quickly to my family. But will hide from new people. She glares at males. But is getting better. She was very easy to train. However only listens to someone that worked with her. So that is me. No one else in the house will work the dogs and they wonder why they don't listen. Sora can clear a 7 foot tall fence if she wants to. So I'm glad she listens to me and has a great recall. She has SA like crazy from me or the pack.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Ciaobella » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:21 am

Nino wrote:
Kylievr wrote:I suppose any breed could develop SA. I looked after my uncles heeler while looking for a new home for her and she had pretty bad SA (which he did not warn me about and my house got quite destroyed while I tried to find her a new home)
Any breed can develop SA, but some breed (eg. the Tamaskan) are more prone to this than other breeds because it is something both affected by environment and genetics..
Agreed.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Booma » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:00 am

Nino wrote:
Kylievr wrote:I suppose any breed could develop SA. I looked after my uncles heeler while looking for a new home for her and she had pretty bad SA (which he did not warn me about and my house got quite destroyed while I tried to find her a new home)
Any breed can develop SA, but some breed (eg. the Tamaskan) are more prone to this than other breeds because it is something both affected by environment and genetics..
I was talking about outcross dogs, since ciobella said she hadn't heard of SA being a prob in the breeds she had mentioned.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Hawthorne » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:53 am

Hiwatari wrote:I know Lynn wasn't for my girl Sora, but if you guys would like a puppy from her (after testing) It would be a Native American Indian Dog X Aatu Tamaskan crossed with a American Alsatian. First gen Kayo Inu with at lest a 6 gen paper if not more to back track. My girl Rin wouldn't come with as nice of a background as I have no clue past her parents. Just an offer. For black phase and a line with nothing to do with Tamaskan. My Native American Village Dog, Hikari will be crossed with a
Alaskan Noble Companion Dog or a German Shepherd. Sora should be in 1-2 year and Hikari 2-3 years from now after all test.
I would contact the TDR committee directly about this.
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bark as if no one can hear you
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lick like there's no end to kissing
sleep on a sofa nearby
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Tiantai » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:50 am

Hawthorne wrote:
Hiwatari wrote:I know Lynn wasn't for my girl Sora, but if you guys would like a puppy from her (after testing) It would be a Native American Indian Dog X Aatu Tamaskan crossed with a American Alsatian. First gen Kayo Inu with at lest a 6 gen paper if not more to back track. My girl Rin wouldn't come with as nice of a background as I have no clue past her parents. Just an offer. For black phase and a line with nothing to do with Tamaskan. My Native American Village Dog, Hikari will be crossed with a
Alaskan Noble Companion Dog or a German Shepherd. Sora should be in 1-2 year and Hikari 2-3 years from now after all test.
I would contact the TDR committee directly about this.
John is the best for advice since he's representing the American branch of the TDR and has been an asset to the breed in the US.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Hiwatari » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:38 am

fangjingtuanlucas wrote:
Hawthorne wrote:
Hiwatari wrote:I know Lynn wasn't for my girl Sora, but if you guys would like a puppy from her (after testing) It would be a Native American Indian Dog X Aatu Tamaskan crossed with a American Alsatian. First gen Kayo Inu with at lest a 6 gen paper if not more to back track. My girl Rin wouldn't come with as nice of a background as I have no clue past her parents. Just an offer. For black phase and a line with nothing to do with Tamaskan. My Native American Village Dog, Hikari will be crossed with a
Alaskan Noble Companion Dog or a German Shepherd. Sora should be in 1-2 year and Hikari 2-3 years from now after all test.
I would contact the TDR committee directly about this.
John is the best for advice since he's representing the American branch of the TDR and has been an asset to the breed in the US.
I would let him know closer to a litter.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Ciaobella » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:34 pm

Kylievr wrote:
Nino wrote:
Kylievr wrote:I suppose any breed could develop SA. I looked after my uncles heeler while looking for a new home for her and she had pretty bad SA (which he did not warn me about and my house got quite destroyed while I tried to find her a new home)
Any breed can develop SA, but some breed (eg. the Tamaskan) are more prone to this than other breeds because it is something both affected by environment and genetics..
I was talking about outcross dogs, since ciobella said she hadn't heard of SA being a prob in the breeds she had mentioned.

I haven't. And yes individual dogs can develop it, depending on their personalities, but some are more prone too it (the Tam) than others. That's why to help the breed there should be an outcross that isn't as prone to it as they are. It may not disappear entirely but it should help if the SA is as severe as most say.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Taz » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:03 pm

Perhaps a lurcher that has gsd in the cross?

I did joke about Estrelas before but, my emd pup is so far practically bombproof.

He's calm and polite with new people and dogs, accepting of new environments, has a low chase instinct, is responsive to training and can be left alone with minimal fuss.
Of course, this could all change he is only young after all.

However, they are a guarding breed, they can be stubborn, independent, slow to recall and with a tendency to bark.

So I wouldn't suggest them personally.

I still think a good sound, health tested gsd or even a bsd or Dutch shepherd, would benifit the breed.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by pagan » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:11 pm

I like the hedlund husky it looks lovely.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by wen » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:25 pm

personnaly, I wouldn't like new husky or husky cross because of a part of their temper, but also because of their curled tail and facial mask, I would rather like a CWD selectionated for his health and his good behaviour, the less fearfull possible, and for that last part, I think it's easier to find a confident CWD than a confident Saarloos.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by BinBin » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:30 am

Hi, just an observation that from the new pictures of Dalton from the "other" forum it can be found that Missy and Jackson, Dalton's parents are owned by Bellburnlane kennels in Darlington. See here: http://www.classifieds.co.uk/middlesbro ... -pups/view an advertise for their puppies, the homepage link takes to a photobucket account (http://s471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/nobbynoble0/) that also has the same Missy's and Jackson's pictures that Jennie has linked. Also, Jackson is advertised as a stud with more than 150 puppies: http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/adverts/238 ... ngton.html

So if you want more info of the bloodlines, perhaps contact these people.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Nino » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:51 pm

Thanks for the find Tuuli :)
I will be looking at it for sure..
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Tiantai » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:00 pm

BinBin wrote: Also, Jackson is advertised as a stud with more than 150 puppies: http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/adverts/238 ... ngton.html
Over 150 puppies! :shock:
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by AZDehlin » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:46 pm

fangjingtuanlucas wrote:
BinBin wrote: Also, Jackson is advertised as a stud with more than 150 puppies: http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/adverts/238 ... ngton.html
Over 150 puppies! :shock:
Don't be too shocked, some dogs have been studded out way more than that (1000(s) puppies). I am sure Jackal is almost up to 100 pups.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by wen » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:48 pm

AZDehlin wrote:
fangjingtuanlucas wrote:
BinBin wrote: Also, Jackson is advertised as a stud with more than 150 puppies: http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/adverts/238 ... ngton.html
Over 150 puppies! :shock:
Don't be too shocked, some dogs have been studded out way more than that (1000(s) puppies). I am sure Jackal is almost up to 100 pups.
yeah, and moreover, he seems to trace monorchidie...
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by TerriHolt » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:30 pm

I was going to say i don't think Jackal is too far off :lol: But compared with a lot of kc dogs, (the boxer with a genetic illness that sired over 600 puppies i think), 150 isn't too bad...
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Nino » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:57 pm

AZDehlin wrote:
fangjingtuanlucas wrote:
BinBin wrote: Also, Jackson is advertised as a stud with more than 150 puppies: http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/adverts/238 ... ngton.html
Over 150 puppies! :shock:
Don't be too shocked, some dogs have been studded out way more than that (1000(s) puppies). I am sure Jackal is almost up to 100 pups.
In DKK (Danish Kennel Club) we have something called Matador breeding, which essentially means that no dog (or in theory bitch) can produce any more than at an absolute maximum of 25% of the puppies born in a breed each year.
Considering this and then looking at breeds, lets just say that the labrador retriever, it produces ex. 1500 pups in a year then one stud can father 375 puppies in just one year, whereas a breed like the Tamaskan where there will be born maybe 45 puppies in a year (world wide) then a dog would be allowed to produce 11 puppies a year..
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by AZDehlin » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:30 am

Nino wrote:
In DKK (Danish Kennel Club) we have something called Matador breeding, which essentially means that no dog (or in theory bitch) can produce any more than at an absolute maximum of 25% of the puppies born in a breed each year.
Considering this and then looking at breeds, lets just say that the labrador retriever, it produces ex. 1500 pups in a year then one stud can father 375 puppies in just one year, whereas a breed like the Tamaskan where there will be born maybe 45 puppies in a year (world wide) then a dog would be allowed to produce 11 puppies a year..

That sounds like a good rule of thumb specially with are breed being so young.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Hawthorne » Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:30 pm

That means only using a stud once per year...if I have that right? That might be problematic in unique situations. I like this as a guideline, but we can't create rules and rule ourselves into a corner. It may result in fights, too--for who gets to use a male and who doesn't. I'm just cautious about creating additional restrictions. I think if we discuss our plans openly as breeders (and why wouldn't we? we're all excited about puppies and the betterment of the breed) that we will all have advice to offer each other. Hmm, sounds like another thread. :) As you all probably know, we hope to use Zephyr on Freyja next. And maybe when Raven is old enough, we'll use Zephyr on her as well.

[edit: see post below]

I'm hoping for some overseas AI, actually. :D Then we'll consider a male outcross (hopefully by then we'll have our own house again so we can add another dog!) But, like anything, things might change.

Katelyn--remember what Dr. Sondel said about the champion Great Dane--that he sired over 600 litters worldwide? Crazy...
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Rahne » Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:42 pm

Hawthorne wrote:We could probably use Jeager on Raven, too--but right now I think that's about it.
No you can't use Jaeger on Raven, DM...

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Tiantai » Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:55 pm

Rahne wrote:
Hawthorne wrote:We could probably use Jeager on Raven, too--but right now I think that's about it.
No you can't use Jaeger on Raven, DM...
I agree, it'll increase the chances and endanger the line.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Hawthorne » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:08 pm

:oops: Oh right, of course. That slipped my mind. I would never do that mating. :oops:
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