COI

All topics pertaining to mating and whelping, as well as upcoming / planned litters.
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Rahne

COI

Post by Rahne » Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:09 pm

If people are interested in the IC of their dogs, here is a website were you can calculate this using Wright's method:
http://www.czerwonytrop.com/inb/index.p ... =ok&lng=en

You can calculate this over several generations. The best would be 10 generations (or more) but with the Tamaskan that will be difficult so I suggest trying 5 generations.
The Wright’s Inbreeding Coefficient (IC) and the Ancestor Loss Coefficient (AVK) the values are optimally IC=0 and AVK=100. A general first rule is: IC should be under 3% in a considered mating; AVK should be over 85%. A little over half of all hereditary defects are caused by hidden (recessive) genes. For the continued health of a breed it is therefore terribly important to consider in each breeding the degree of relationship represented by Relationship Coefficient (RC) in the parent dogs in order to avoid doubling up on possible defects in the alleles. The Mean Kinship Coefficient (MK) is a supplementary and it indicates in defined population the individual with the lowest MK. Individual with the lowest MK coefficient is the most genetically valuable for breeding program.

Inbreeding coefficient IC (other abbreviation used in literature: WIC, IK, COI, FX, F ) can theoretically range from 0 to 100%, and shows the degree of relationship between the perspective parent dogs and indicates the possibility that two alleles of a gene are completely alike with another dog in the pedigree, i.e. they originate from the doubling of an allele in one of the ancestors. The primary consequence of inbreeding is to increase homozygosity. The inbreeding coefficient is a function of the number and location of the common ancestors in a pedigree. According to the experts is also recommended that an individual’s IC should not exceed 6% counted from the 5 generation pedigree, which is about the same as breeding among cousins, and 9% counted from the 10 generations pedigree.
FCI recommendation for rare breeds is that IC should not exceed 10%.
Blustag Little Sunshine (Summer) x Apache Horse
Inbreeding: 0%
AVK (ancestor loss coefficient: 88.7%

Blustag Bindaree (Nevada) x Blustag Little Bear (Skye)
Inbreeding: 5.5%
AVK (ancestor loss coefficient: 85.5%

Both are calculated over 5 generations.

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Re: COI

Post by WhiteElkDoe » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:34 pm

That's really cool! I'll have to try it with Rhea & Sophie's history once I dig out the papers.

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Re: COI

Post by AZDehlin » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:38 pm

This is really cool, thanks for sharing :D

It would be really cool to see every ones COI's of their Tamaskan's if they don't mind sharing :)

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Re: COI

Post by Wave2Tuffy » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:29 am

TARHEEL RODANTHE WAVE

Inbreeding: 0.03125 (3.125%)
AVK (ancestor loss coefficient): 95.161290322581%

Rahne

Re: COI

Post by Rahne » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:52 am

Wave2Tuffy wrote:TARHEEL RODANTHE WAVE

Inbreeding: 0.03125 (3.125%)
AVK (ancestor loss coefficient): 95.161290322581%
Did you calculate this over 5 generations?

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Re: COI

Post by jyotin » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:20 am

Rahne wrote:
Blustag Bindaree (Nevada) x Blustag Little Bear (Skye)
Inbreeding: 5.5%
AVK (ancestor loss coefficient: 85.5%

Both are calculated over 5 generations.
It says that the IC should be under 3%...is the 5.5% here acceptable because it was done over 5 generations and not 10?
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Re: COI

Post by Rahne » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:50 am

jyotin wrote:
Rahne wrote:
Blustag Bindaree (Nevada) x Blustag Little Bear (Skye)
Inbreeding: 5.5%
AVK (ancestor loss coefficient: 85.5%

Both are calculated over 5 generations.
It says that the IC should be under 3%...is the 5.5% here acceptable because it was done over 5 generations and not 10?
Well I read two things:
A general first rule is: IC should be under 3% in a considered mating; AVK should be over 85%.
According to the experts is also recommended that an individual’s IC should not exceed 6% counted from the 5 generation pedigree, which is about the same as breeding among cousins, and 9% counted from the 10 generations pedigree.
FCI recommendation for rare breeds is that IC should not exceed 10%.
Not sure what the difference is?
It's the individual IC that I calculated but I listed the litter and not one single dog because all the pups from the litter will have the same IC.

I think for a breed like the Tamaskan (and generated over 5 generations) this is a good score. I would say to try to keep it under 10% maybe.. the lower the better of course. What do others think about this?

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Re: COI

Post by AZDehlin » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:42 pm

Rahne wrote: Not sure what the difference is?
It's the individual IC that I calculated but I listed the litter and not one single dog because all the pups from the litter will have the same IC.

I think for a breed like the Tamaskan (and generated over 5 generations) this is a good score. I would say to try to keep it under 10% maybe.. the lower the better of course. What do others think about this?
I think it is a good score... I would like to see more litter IC's. I like that all the ones that have been posted are under 6% and I would definitely say keep it under 10% but keep as low as possible :D

Rahne

Re: COI

Post by Rahne » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:31 pm

Some more of recent litters.

Blustag Atlin (Frigga) x Blustag Desert Orchid (Odin)
Inbreeding: 0%
AVK (ancestor loss coefficient: 96.8%

Blustag Diamonds are Forever (Dallas) x Dingo at Blustag (Dingo)
Inbreeding: 0%
AVK (ancestor loss coefficient: 98.4%

Alba Zuul (Zuul) x Blustag Desert Orchid (Odin)
Inbreeding: 6,3%
AVK (ancestor loss coefficient: 83.9%

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Re: COI

Post by AZDehlin » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:40 pm

I am very happy with our IC! Is Zuul x Odin the highest percent inbreeding you have calculated so far?

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Re: COI

Post by Nino » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:51 pm

AZDehlin wrote:I am very happy with our IC! Is Zuul x Odin the highest percent inbreeding you have calculated so far?
Well Vixen x Jasper had a high percent inbreeding, but it wasn't on purpose that breeding
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Re: COI

Post by AZDehlin » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:53 pm

Nino wrote:
AZDehlin wrote:I am very happy with our IC! Is Zuul x Odin the highest percent inbreeding you have calculated so far?
Well Vixen x Jasper had a high percent inbreeding, but it wasn't on purpose that breeding
Forgot about that breeding, anyone know the COI of that litter?

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Re: COI

Post by JulieSmith » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:59 am

Rahne wrote:Some more of recent litters.

Blustag Atlin (Frigga) x Blustag Desert Orchid (Odin)
Inbreeding: 0%
AVK (ancestor loss coefficient: 96.8%

Blustag Diamonds are Forever (Dallas) x Dingo at Blustag (Dingo)
Inbreeding: 0%
AVK (ancestor loss coefficient: 98.4%

Alba Zuul (Zuul) x Blustag Desert Orchid (Odin)
Inbreeding: 6,3%
AVK (ancestor loss coefficient: 83.9%
Thanks that saves me doing Sagas. They are good results.

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Re: COI

Post by Katlin » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:06 am

These are very interesting (if only I paid attention in Bio when we did genetics :lol: :roll: )
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Re: COI

Post by Misaya » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:30 am

Very interesting. I have done Ayasca, and the same applies to Mischa, as they are full brother and sister. I can only do 4 generations though as that is all the info I have.

Blustag Care Bear (Miya) x Kwakiuth at Alba (Magnus)
Inbreeding: 0%
AVK (ancestor loss coefficient: 93.3%
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Re: COI

Post by blufawn » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:45 pm

I just went onto the linked website and to test it I did Sawyers as well, but got a different result to Rahne, why do you think that is???

Alba Zuul (Zuul) x Blustag Desert Orchid (Odin)
Inbreeding: 5.5%
AVK (ancestor loss coefficient: 80%
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
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Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

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Re: COI

Post by Rahne » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:56 pm

blufawn wrote:I just went onto the linked website and to test it I did Sawyers as well, but got a different result to Rahne, why do you think that is???

Alba Zuul (Zuul) x Blustag Desert Orchid (Odin)
Inbreeding: 5.5%
AVK (ancestor loss coefficient: 80%
Did you do 5 generations? I also added the Utonagan lines behind (up to Thor).

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Re: COI

Post by blufawn » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:26 pm

Yes I did as well
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
.............................................................
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

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Re: COI

Post by Nino » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:14 pm

couldn't it be that one of you misspelled at some point making the result different?
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Re: COI

Post by Hawthorne » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:26 am

Well, Freyja's would be the same as Waves :D
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Re: COI

Post by HiTenshi16 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:54 am

Finally got around to doing Ulric's just for fun :P

Alba Lycan (Lycaon) x Moonstone Make Me Pure (Odin)
Inbreeding: 0%
AVK (ancestor loss coefficient): 77.4%
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Re: COI

Post by Katlin » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:09 am

HiTenshi16 wrote:Finally got around to doing Ulric's just for fun :P

Alba Lycan (Lycaon) x Moonstone Make Me Pure (Odin)
Inbreeding: 0%
AVK (ancestor loss coefficient): 77.4%
Cool! What does AVK mean (like I know ancestor loss coefficient)?
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Re: COI

Post by AZDehlin » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:35 pm

I just did Zephyr's:

Nanny McPhee at Blustag (Nana) x Jackal at Blustag (Jackal)
Inbreeding: 0 (0%)
AVK (ancestor loss coefficient): 100%

Does this sound right?

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Re: COI

Post by arianwenarie » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:07 am

Convel wrote:
HiTenshi16 wrote:Finally got around to doing Ulric's just for fun :P

Alba Lycan (Lycaon) x Moonstone Make Me Pure (Odin)
Inbreeding: 0%
AVK (ancestor loss coefficient): 77.4%
Cool! What does AVK mean (like I know ancestor loss coefficient)?
I googled this a little while ago and Google spat out this helpful little gem: http://thewhippetarchives.net/ic_help.php

Apparently, the ancestor loss coefficient is the percentage format of the number of ancestors in the pedigree lost due to them not being unique ancestors. The example cited on the above site is: a 4-generation pedigree contains 30 ancestors (repeated or not) - if a particular pedigree consists of 30 unique ancestors, then there is no ancestor loss at all. A example of this in the Tamaskan is the Nanna x Jackal litters -- their AVK is 100% because there are 30 unique ancestors out of 30 (all dogs in the pedigree entered are completely unrelated).

EDIT:
OK, so a couple hours of number crunching later, my findings are the AVK % is the percentage number of unique ancestors present in the pedigree entered. If you want to know the number of unique ancestors in your dog's pedigree based on the AVK %, then do some algebra. ;)

Example: In a 7 generation pedigree (not including gen 0), there are 254 ancestors. Take the AVK % divided by 100 to get it in decimal form. After that, do (total # ancestors * AVK decimal form) to get the approximate number of non-unique ancestors in your dog's pedigree. Obviously, if you then take (total # ancestors - number from the algebra), you get the number of unique ancestors. ;)

EDIT2:
The site posted by Rahne has a calculation error...the AVK % that's generated should actually be 100% minus the percentage shown. Reason why is because if there are 30 unique ancestors out of 30 in a 4-gen pedigree, then there is NO ancestor loss (no repeats in pedigree). In the Nanna x Jackal litters, their AVK should be 0%.

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