TDR Registration & Deleted FB Posts?

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arianwenarie
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TDR Registration & Deleted FB Posts?

Post by arianwenarie » Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:43 pm

I distinctly remember making a few off-topic posts in one of the FB posts in the Tamaskan Dog Debate group. It was there earlier this week and now, those posts are gone. I understand why a couple posts would've been deleted as they're inaccurate posts, but I think I'm most peeved about my question that still hasn't been answered regarding TDR registration. Admittedly, I did post it in that same thread when I probably shouldn't have. However, I still believe it's a valid question that should receive some sort of response.

I'll pose those questions here again as I've gotten over the deleted posts issue.

Here's what I posted in the new registration thread on the forum a little while back - no response so far:
1. If a dog is registered with the TDR on conditional or limited registration, but is used for breeding anyway (without TDR approval), will those dogs be registered with the TDR on limited registration if bred with another TDR registered Tamaskan (regardless of registration (i.e. full, conditional, limited))?
2. If the pups produced (from #1) will not be registered with the TDR on limited registration, will they be listed in the TDR database as purebred Tams but clearly shown as NOREG on their ID to indicate they're not registered Tams?

I honestly think it'd be beneficial if the latter were done: breeding restricted Tam puppies produced (as long as with 2 TDR registered Tams irrespective of registration status) to be included in the database, but not registered. Of course, this would require cooperation from the owners of the dogs/pups to provide this information to the TDR. :p
Here's a paraphrasing of what I wrote in the FB post thread:

I understand why it may be a good idea to register purebred Tamaskans from the Blus if the owners provide sufficient proof to the TDR and request registration of their dog. However, does this mean that all unregistered purebred Tamaskans can be registered with the TDR if their owners go through the process and "pass", per se? If that's the case, then are these Tams obtaining full registration, limited or conditional registration?

While I understand why it's no fault of the owners and they should be allowed to seek registration, I just think it's a slap in the face to those who are registered TDR breeders who work towards bettering the breed. If anything, I feel the purebred Tams obtained by unregistered TDR breeders should be registered under limited registration. On a case-by-case basis, should these owners wish to register themselves as breeders, then they can go through that process and obtain full registration for their dog(s).

I apologize in advance if mods/admins find me bumping this thread periodically...I'd really appreciate a response to this either way as I'm sure there are others out there who feel the same as I do.

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Re: TDR Registration & Deleted FB Posts?

Post by weylyn » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:28 am

Doesn't necessarily means it was deleted....
I also had some trouble today with FB.
I knew there was a discussion, FB also warned me people responded but I saw nothing.......

I do hope your questions get answered.
Of course I have my own opinion about it but that is not what you ask ;)

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Re: TDR Registration & Deleted FB Posts?

Post by arianwenarie » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:42 am

weylyn wrote:Doesn't necessarily means it was deleted....
I also had some trouble today with FB.
I knew there was a discussion, FB also warned me people responded but I saw nothing.......

I do hope your questions get answered.
Of course I have my own opinion about it but that is not what you ask ;)
FB can be a black hole sometimes...lol. But the comment count matched and I haven't had any issues with seeing posts.

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Re: TDR Registration & Deleted FB Posts?

Post by TerriHolt » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:50 am

It does just seem to be arianwenarie's post that have vanished into the unknown of fb black holes... But fb has been playing up for a few days for me.

Well, i'm pleased you asked because i was at a loss for how to phrase it :oops: . I'm also unsure of how to answer questions :oops: so any answers could aid me in my question answering conundrums...

I have been asked by someone on fb a few month back (i think it was, well, it was before my boys birthday anyway) why they are not registered when:
a) the blus have their pups registered anyway
b) people in full support of the TDR join their forums and any additional groups they create
c) people can get a cheaper, unregistered pup from them and promptly have it registered instead of paying more for a registered pup... Kinda unfair to those who pay more for the same privileges...

and i've been told they are sharing the Tamaskan rescue logo... The first one that was used as profile pic? I'm slightly confused on this tho, didn't know the blus had a rescue page :? (or i forgot :oops: ) nor can i find one.
None of this i have an answer for except to ask the individual they are referring to or ask the people it concerns/the decision makers...
Even if i wanted to play middle man they gave up no names except they were hoping to get a pup in the near future and wanted to stay in the good graces of the breeders and TRD committee/reps (asking me not to reveal who they are, then went and joined the blu's first forum).

But he did have a point, it will be confusing for any outsiders finding out the excluded breeders still get pups registered. Other breeders are taking so much care and effort to produce pups for the better and the Blucrew are producing pups en masse with no care, thought or consideration to their actions for future health of said pups...
Would a acknowledgement registration be better and a full acknowledgement registration to breeding quality pups if it has that 'something special'? Something that's not quite registration or something that places a noticeable difference between a blu pup and a TDR registered pup whether breeding pup or pet pup?

Hope this made sense, i've had a terribly rough week, slept nil to none and no one to vent to because everyone's connected and no one wants to get involved /breath.... Sooo things are not coming out how i intended and if i got something wrong i am very, deeply sorry...
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Re: TDR Registration & Deleted FB Posts?

Post by arianwenarie » Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:13 am

After reading TerriHolt's post, there's something else that popped up in my head: J&J pups show in the TDR database as NOREG. They're from purebred Tamaskans; just that Jethro is not registered either. Is this one of the reasons why J&J pups aren't registered either (along with the Jethro having failing hips per OFA)?

If the Blus unregistered pups can be registered if the owners appeal, then in the same notion, why can't Paka and Fable be given TDR registration as well? That is, unless AngieH, did not request her girls to be registered by the TDR...

Or is it that the Blu's pups can be included in the database, but show as NOREG; thus not really getting registered with the TDR? So confused... @_@

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Re: TDR Registration & Deleted FB Posts?

Post by HiTenshi16 » Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:17 am

arianwenarie wrote:After reading TerriHolt's post, there's something else that popped up in my head: J&J pups show in the TDR database as NOREG. They're from purebred Tamaskans; just that Jethro is not registered either. Is this one of the reasons why J&J pups aren't registered either (along with the Jethro having failing hips per OFA)?

If the Blus unregistered pups can be registered if the owners appeal, then in the same notion, why can't Paka and Fable be given TDR registration as well? That is, unless AngieH, did not request her girls to be registered by the TDR...

Or is it that the Blu's pups can be included in the database, but show as NOREG; thus not really getting registered with the TDR? So confused... @_@
Maybe that is because with the pups from the Blus, both parents were once registered whereas with the J&J pups, only one parent was registered?
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Re: TDR Registration & Deleted FB Posts?

Post by weylyn » Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:40 pm

My personal opinion is that bloodlines of our tamaskans is the best to have them in the database.
I do believe that people that have tamaskans relatives to the registered tamaskan must have a chance to register them official but only if they do more health test on them like already the mandatory tests and above that the dwarfisme , CERF and Bear.
Why do I think this.......
We still need dogs for 1. I see no point in register a dog if not wanted to use for breeding. And if you want to breed but have the dog from a bad breeder you need more tests to know what you bring in.
But this is all just my personal opinion ;)
And also because of the more test that you must do and therefore make the total price more alike hopefully that also encourage people not to buy from bad breeders....

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Re: TDR Registration & Deleted FB Posts?

Post by darazan » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:40 pm

These are really good questions that I've wondered as well, so some clarification here would be marvelous.

Additionally, I'm having a little bit of trouble understanding some of the policies involving Tamaskan registration as a whole, and here are some of the questions I have regarding that:

1. Are only breeding dogs allowed to be registered? If not, how are non-breeding dogs (regardless of quality) registered within the TDR?
2. How are outcross litters registered? Are they registered as Tamaskan-mix or as Tamaskan?
3. Are outcrosses themselves registered with the TDR? If so, why?
4. Are breeders with purebred Tamaskans who are not part of the TDR allowed to have pups from their litters registered with the TDR?

None of these questions are meant as an accusation or to cause any offense. They are simply things that I am not understanding and would like some clarification of.
-Crystal

weylyn

Re: TDR Registration & Deleted FB Posts?

Post by weylyn » Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:56 pm

of course I can not answer your question but I can say what I find logic for your question number 3.
I would register the outcross and so far I have seen they have done that. They are set as foundation dogs. It is good to register because then you have all the information also in the DNA storage etc. To register you can find all the information on them faster so that probably would be why ;)

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Re: TDR Registration & Deleted FB Posts?

Post by Cornelia1986 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:54 am

darazan wrote:These are really good questions that I've wondered as well, so some clarification here would be marvelous.

Additionally, I'm having a little bit of trouble understanding some of the policies involving Tamaskan registration as a whole, and here are some of the questions I have regarding that:

1. Are only breeding dogs allowed to be registered? If not, how are non-breeding dogs (regardless of quality) registered within the TDR?
2. How are outcross litters registered? Are they registered as Tamaskan-mix or as Tamaskan?
3. Are outcrosses themselves registered with the TDR? If so, why?
4. Are breeders with purebred Tamaskans who are not part of the TDR allowed to have pups from their litters registered with the TDR?

None of these questions are meant as an accusation or to cause any offense. They are simply things that I am not understanding and would like some clarification of.
The pups of an outcross-litter will get a Conditional TDR Registration.
For more registration infos check: http://www.tamaskan-dog.org/registry/li ... gistration

I hope this will help you :)
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Re: TDR Registration & Deleted FB Posts?

Post by darazan » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:30 am

Cornelia1986 wrote:
The pups of an outcross-litter will get a Conditional TDR Registration.
For more registration infos check: http://www.tamaskan-dog.org/registry/li ... gistration

I hope this will help you :)

Conditional TDR Registration

Conditional Registration is issued to any Tamaskan offspring born from registered Tamaskan parents, which have NOT met the aforementioned TDR breeding requirements. (For instance, in the event whereby the sire and/or dam were not completely health tested prior to litter registration.) Conditional Registration also covers Tamaskan offspring born of a sire and/or dam without a passing hip score, or some other undesirable genetic condition (such as cryptorchidism or other such inherited disorders). Conditional Registration can be amended, and become Full Registration, if the dog in question meets the established TDR requirements (pending a review by the TDR Committee).
This says that the parents have to be registered Tamaskans, which an outcross litter would not qualify as. Neither would an outcross litter seem to qualify for "Tamaskan offspring born of a sire and/or dam without a passing hip score, or some other undesirable genetic condition (such as cryptorchidism or other such inherited disorders)." It feels like the standard for registration does not have a place for outcrosses, really. I would think that the offspring of an outcross would be listed as a Tamaskan cross/mix, and then their offspring, if proven beneficial to the breed, could be considered full Tamaskan so long as they were bred with a registered Tamaskan. Listing outcross litters as conditionally registered Tamaskans seems a bit confusing to me.
-Crystal

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Re: TDR Registration & Deleted FB Posts?

Post by Tiantai » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:05 pm

I noticed that a LOT of posts that I wrote on my own wall also appeared to have been deleted though when I clicked on the "show all" in the control I saw that they were merely hidden to "simplify" the wall if that makes any sense. Perhaps what you wrote may also have been merely hidden.
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Re: TDR Registration & Deleted FB Posts?

Post by arianwenarie » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:14 pm

Tiantai wrote:I noticed that a LOT of posts that I wrote on my own wall also appeared to have been deleted though when I clicked on the "show all" in the control I saw that they were merely hidden to "simplify" the wall if that makes any sense. Perhaps what you wrote may also have been merely hidden.
If they were hidden in the thread, then I would have been able to unhide them and see them. But that was not the case, it seems. I asked a couple other people to check and see if my posts were there and they confirmed they couldn't see the posts either. The comment count also went down accordingly. Not sure what that's about since FB is a black hole...so lost data will be lost data. Haha.

I'm still rather curious about the questions that others and myself have posed in this thread. Can a TDR rep chime in?

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Re: TDR Registration & Deleted FB Posts?

Post by Cornelia1986 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:17 pm

When I asked (about registration of an outcross litter):

Will the pups be registered Tamaskan dogs?

I've got the answer of one of the Forummoderators:

Yes they will be registered Tamaskan on conditional registration. (read more: http://www.tamaskan-dog.org/registry/li ... gistration) We will do this with every outcross litter so we can evaluate all pups at a certain age and then determine if they are suitable for further breeding (they will then be fully registered) or not. If these pups have the correct coloring/masking then I expect no problems with them becoming fully registered.

Maybe the have not found the time to change/add this information yet!
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Re: TDR Registration & Deleted FB Posts?

Post by arianwenarie » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:32 pm

It does make the most sense that outcross litters will receive conditional registration. I would assume that upon evaluation at the appropriate age (18-24 months?), then the outcross puppies' registration will be amended to either Full (no breeding restriction if all satisfies health testing) or Limited (no breeding allowed).

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Re: TDR Registration & Deleted FB Posts?

Post by AZDehlin » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:05 pm

My understanding of this being the one that is now creating/printing and shipping the registrations is if J&J dogs from past litters want to be registered with registration numbers all they need to do is contact the TDR committee with their dogs info and TDR will discuss what registration the dogs will go under limited or conditional registration or even full pending health tests and then I get the info once the owner has paid for the documents I ship them to owner.

All litters from a cross-breeding will go under limited or conditional registration which could be challenged/changed when the dogs is an adult and health tested.

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Re: TDR Registration & Deleted FB Posts?

Post by arianwenarie » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:39 pm

AZDehlin wrote:My understanding of this being the one that is now creating/printing and shipping the registrations is if J&J dogs from past litters want to be registered with registration numbers all they need to do is contact the TDR committee with their dogs info and TDR will discuss what registration the dogs will go under limited or conditional registration or even full pending health tests and then I get the info once the owner has paid for the documents I ship them to owner.

All litters from a cross-breeding will go under limited or conditional registration which could be challenged/changed when the dogs is an adult and health tested.
Thanks for the detailed response. If I may ask...what about the Blustag/Blufawn puppies whose owners seek registration? Is it the same process for them as you've described above?

In my personal opinion, I feel that registration of these dogs should be conditional or limited once parentage is proven (DNA profiling). Owners can seek full registration by appealing to TDR by completing more health testing (i.e. hips & DM). Then, if they want to continue further to use their dog for breeding, then they'll just need to register for breeder status as all minimum health testing should be completed by this point...?

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Re: TDR Registration & Deleted FB Posts?

Post by AZDehlin » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:44 pm

arianwenarie wrote:
AZDehlin wrote:My understanding of this being the one that is now creating/printing and shipping the registrations is if J&J dogs from past litters want to be registered with registration numbers all they need to do is contact the TDR committee with their dogs info and TDR will discuss what registration the dogs will go under limited or conditional registration or even full pending health tests and then I get the info once the owner has paid for the documents I ship them to owner.

All litters from a cross-breeding will go under limited or conditional registration which could be challenged/changed when the dogs is an adult and health tested.
Thanks for the detailed response. If I may ask...what about the Blustag/Blufawn puppies whose owners seek registration? Is it the same process for them as you've described above?

In my personal opinion, I feel that registration of these dogs should be conditional or limited once parentage is proven (DNA profiling). Owners can seek full registration by appealing to TDR by completing more health testing (i.e. hips & DM). Then, if they want to continue further to use their dog for breeding, then they'll just need to register for breeder status as all minimum health testing should be completed by this point...?
I am unsure as none of these recent blue dogs has requested to be registered. I hope that parentage will have to be confirmed at least.

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