Nature vs Nurture?

All off-topic discussions; a place to discuss anything and everything!
Post Reply
User avatar
Gaby
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1205
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 1:08 am
Location: Groningen, the Netherlands

Nature vs Nurture?

Post by Gaby » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:04 am

There has been a Hongerian experiment, to bring up a wolf cub without his parents in a home with people and dogs. If you where wondering if that could work,you can watch the video. ;)



I thought that there was enough evidence that you can't bring up a wolf in your home, I'm not sure why they tested this. Although it's interesting to see. I was wondering what the people from the video knew from dog and wolfbehaviour. A "normal" person would probably have more difficulties with a wolf in house than a dog/wolf bevahiour expert.
And I probably introduced the wolf in a different way than the people in the video do with other wolves. I guess a strange wolf could be killed if you just throw him in a pack like that. What do you think about the video?

User avatar
Sylvaen
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 5203
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 3:53 pm
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Re: Nature vs Nurture?

Post by Sylvaen » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:29 pm

Duh... I'm surprised they didn't research this FIRST before they did the experiment - there's already been many other examples done in the past on this very subject!

A few notes as I'm watching the video:
- aside from the experiment, what are they hoping to accomplish? it seems crazy to "dognap" 5 day old wolfcubs to raise them by hand because what will happen to them after the experiment? They won't have their fully wild instincts anymore (to hunt and fend for themselves) and they won't be domesticated either... at best, this experiment is lining them up for a future in a zoo
- by hand-raising 5 day old wolfcubs, they are already twisting the rules of the experiment (to see if they can be raised like dogs)... after all, how many people get puppies when they are only 5 days old? I can understand WHY they did it, but it isn't exactly identical to raising them as regular dogs (starting at the age of 8 weeks)... with socialization from around 4 weeks.
- I was shocked to see how they just put that wolfpup back into the enclosure with the other wolves! I agree, it could have ended nastily (and still might) because of the pack hierarchy and a foreign wolf on their territory usually doesn't integrate into a strange pack so easily (even if they are genetically related and those wolves are its family... if it wasn't raised with them, they'll view it as an outsider).
- yes: "the dog is NOT a socialized wolf" (rather: the dog is a DOMESTICATED wolf) within 6-8 generations of careful selective breeding (100% wolf) it would exhibit more dog-like behavior... that process would then be much faster if they crossed the wolves with dogs, creating wolfdogs. Also, they didn't take wolfcubs from WILD wolves, they took them from a captive-bred pair from a wolf sanctuary so already there are several generations of domestication involved, though not necessarily intentional

thanks for sharing this video, it was interesting to see the experiment nonetheless :)
it just goes to show, the Tamaskan breed certainly doesn't exhibit these common wolf behaviors!
Image
The future lies before you, like a path of pure white snow...
Be careful how you tread it, for every step will show.

User avatar
Nino
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3106
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:13 am
Location: Aalborg - Denmark

Re: Nature vs Nurture?

Post by Nino » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:36 pm

I'm thinking that if you do the same thing as with the russian fox'es (choosing the tamest over several generations) - THAT would be an interesting experiment to follow - without crossbreeding to dogs..

But this is a useless experiment..
>> Nino <<
Image

User avatar
claireyclaire
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1181
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 3:59 pm
Location: Wiltshire, UK

Re: Nature vs Nurture?

Post by claireyclaire » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:03 am

Sylvaen wrote:it just goes to show, the Tamaskan breed certainly doesn't exhibit these common wolf behaviors!
This was the one thing that stood out to me too, maybe we should get this added to the Fable site :)
“You can take the dog out of the Wolf Pack, But you can't take the Wolf Pack out of the dog"

wen
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1431
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 10:48 pm
Location: France

Re: Nature vs Nurture?

Post by wen » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:29 am

I totally share Debby's comments
"Mieux vivre avec votre chien"
Aide à l'éducation canine et réflexion sur les chiens dits "dangereux"

User avatar
Gaby
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1205
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 1:08 am
Location: Groningen, the Netherlands

Re: Nature vs Nurture?

Post by Gaby » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:35 pm

Sylvaen wrote:Duh... I'm surprised they didn't research this FIRST before they did the experiment - there's already been many other examples done in the past on this very subject!

thanks for sharing this video, it was interesting to see the experiment nonetheless :)
it just goes to show, the Tamaskan breed certainly doesn't exhibit these common wolf behaviors!
I totally agree with you! ;) I found this on another forum and even it was an in my opinion dumb experiment, I found it interesting to see what happened. It went exactly as I thought it would go. If they want to do it more like how it goes with a domesticated dog, they should have put a young wolf puppy with a good socialized mother dog in a litter with no other wolves.

Rahne

Re: Nature vs Nurture?

Post by Rahne » Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:53 pm

This is a part from the documentairy 'dogs decoded': http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/dogs-decoded/

The results aren't suprising, there have been more people that tried raising wolf cubs in their house. It's clear that they can't be kept as 'normal' pets like dogs can :roll:

User avatar
CaliforniaWolf
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:14 am
Location: California

Re: Nature vs Nurture?

Post by CaliforniaWolf » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:47 am

- aside from the experiment, what are they hoping to accomplish? it seems crazy to "dognap" 5 day old wolfcubs to raise them by hand because what will happen to them after the experiment? They won't have their fully wild instincts anymore (to hunt and fend for themselves) and they won't be domesticated either... at best, this experiment is lining them up for a future in a zoo
That's exactly what I was thinking.... :?
Here for a "howling" good time :)
Image

User avatar
TerriHolt
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3274
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:56 am
Location: UK, East Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Nature vs Nurture?

Post by TerriHolt » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:54 pm

Damn i was hoping to use this video in the debate group for "Why Dogs Can Be Tamed But Wolves Cannot"... Doesn't work... But the comments make my point :D I spent hours looking for this :(

Edit: well, 35 minuets but feels like hours :lol:

Edit 2: Well, i think it was this... Trying to tame wolf pups and failed right? I can't see nothing else that seem's like what i was looking for :?
Image

There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

Post Reply