Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

A place to share your artwork of Tamaskan Dogs or wolves and/or your favorite artwork by other people.
Post Reply
User avatar
Tatzel
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:17 am
Location: Berlin

Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Tatzel » Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:02 am

I just went to the German Tamaskan Club website and was shocked to find them using one of WildSpiritWolf's drawings as their official logo?!

I'm pretty sure they don't have permission for this, it was a commissioned work for one of her customers. She's pretty well known on DeviantART and her style is pretty obvious, didn't took me long to find the original in her gallery, heavily watermarked to prevent these things from happening. But I guess whoever took the image downloaded it preior to the watermarks being added (they used to be blank once, and some of the blankies are still floating around the internet, too)

Logo:
http://666kb.com/i/bqf3k3seaxid054o1.jpg
Original:
http://wildspiritwolf.deviantart.com/ar ... h-49333795

Logo 2:
http://file1.npage.de/008309/33/bilder/ ... y_logo.jpg
Original 2:
http://wildspiritwolf.deviantart.com/ar ... o-48661489

Please take note of the submission date, which is 2007.
As an artist, I find this outrageous! What were they thinking? :evil:
Image

User avatar
TerriHolt
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3274
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:56 am
Location: UK, East Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by TerriHolt » Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:10 am

didn't they use Katelyn's design for breed standard for an item of clothing too? Think they agreed to stop using it... But i down loaded their image to gimp and katelyn's and with a bit of re-sizing, it was a perfect match.
Image

There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

Rahne

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Rahne » Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:11 am

A few weeks back they had printed some shirts with a drawing on it made by Katelyn. This one: http://www.tamaskan-dog.org/images/tama ... rtions.png
When she confronted them with it they said it wasn't the same, it was a Malinois...

Hopefully they ask for permission to use artwork from others.

User avatar
Tatzel
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:17 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Tatzel » Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:28 am

Wow, I have no words.
So arrogant!

What would they say if someone would steal their dogs and breed with them?

I made the artist aware, I'm sure nothing will come out of it, but I kind of hope she'll take legal actions. Some people just don't understand until the court gets involved and legal matters are pressed...
Image

User avatar
Valravn
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1051
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 4:22 pm
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Valravn » Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:28 am

When they first started using it I knew it was someone else's design. I guess I just thought they had gotten permission before using it... Maybe this is not the case? As an artist myself I find art theft very offensive.

User avatar
Tatzel
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:17 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Tatzel » Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:41 am

Valravn wrote:When they first started using it I knew it was someone else's design. I guess I just thought they had gotten permission before using it... Maybe this is not the case? As an artist myself I find art theft very offensive.
I honestly doubt they have permission. If they had, they would state the artist's name under the "Bildrechte" (image rights) part on their website; http://tamaskan-germany.npage.de/, but they don't. WildSpiritWolf's first name is Tahlin, but I read no Tahlin there.
I also honestly doubt that Tahlin would just hand out permission to use on of her commissions as a logo, it would be rather disrespectful to the original client who commissioned the piece as a tattoo design.

I've noticed before that the logo looked like something WSW would draw, but I thought they just asked a friend to draw something in a similar style (it's not uncommon that other artists adapt her style), but when I went looking I saw that it was nothing but an altered copy of the original.

Just as you, as an artist I take great offense to such a thing. I really hate it when people think they can just take and use artwork. Just because it is (or once was) a hobby means that it's free game!

Personally, I don't really mind if they use it for their personal use, like make avatars out of them, set it as desktop background, print it on a shirt for themselves to wear or anything (if they give credit even, that's just the bomb!), but if they use it for anything attached to profit making, it's just a big, fat "NO".
And I mean they put that logo on their merchandise like the calender and who knows what else.

They should let go of this logo immediatelly and pay an artist to actually design something for them which they can call their own. Or ask someone to design them one for free, I'm sure they have enough friends who might have the talent to draw something up for them.
Image

User avatar
Katlin
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 2739
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:48 am
Location: Calgary, AB
Contact:

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Katlin » Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:47 am

I KNEW I had seen it somewhere but couldn't find it! Brutal. I hope they are called out on this and something is done. Has the artist been notified?
Polarose Tamaskan
Polardog Outfitters
Owner of Sierra Kaweah RN RI TDI TRN TTDN CRN-MCL @ Polarose

User avatar
Tatzel
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:17 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Tatzel » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:08 am

I've left a comment on the artist's profile, yeah. Hope she's going to see it, she's pretty popular and gets probably tons of messages each day.

I also decided to be rude and left a comment on the Tamaskan Club Germany facebook page pointing to the original work when some photo with a banner of it turned up.
Someone then told me I should have noted the Tamaskan Club Germany in private, but seriously?
You take something without permission knowingly, so go and take the blame and shame, too. I'm done handling these kind of people with kid gloves. Additionally, the artist deserves the recognition.

I really love how people unrelated to the art making world always treat this as some sort of trivial offence, when it atcually really is a criminal offense.
Image

User avatar
AZDehlin
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3039
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:52 am
Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan, USA (for now)
Contact:

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by AZDehlin » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:20 am

My art was stolen by them and, I had to contact facebook on two separate occasions. The first time my design was posted under they deleted on their own before facebook got to it. The second time I directly contacted Facebook when my art was posted on another profile, I had facebook remove it from their profile. Seeing as they used my art on an advertisement for a sweatshirt that was likely made already I am sure they could be making money off my art. Not happy about the idea,

Karen
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:23 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Karen » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:26 am

What is this? Bash the German group?

Why dont you ask them, before attacking them publicly!? Isnt that what the TDR and this forum just said they didnt want?

User avatar
Tatzel
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:17 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Tatzel » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:41 am

Karen wrote:What is this? Bash the German group?

Why dont you ask them, before attacking them publicly!? Isnt that what the TDR and this forum just said they didnt want?
No, it's a "make the public aware that there is art theft involved" post.
As stated on the german group, the artist deserves the recognition and this issue needs to be adressed. Maybe as a non-artist, you don't understand how severe this is.
Stealing someone's intellectual property is just as bad as stealing someone's car (or any other belonging, for that matter), and I don't know why people actually defend the offenders.

I've no interesst in bashing anyone, but this simply is not okay. And they're grown up people, they should have known that it is not okay to just take some picture they found on the internet and use it as a logo for their group and print it on everything they sell. They should have asked the artist for permission first, but the very least they abolutely should have done is give credit on their website, but they didn't.

And appearently it's not even the first time they took someone else's art and used it in their own ways to benefit from, so why cut them some slack when it's clearly undeserved?
Image

Karen
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:23 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Karen » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:54 am

Tatzel wrote:
Karen wrote:What is this? Bash the German group?

Why dont you ask them, before attacking them publicly!? Isnt that what the TDR and this forum just said they didnt want?
No, it's a "make the public aware that there is art theft involved" post.
As stated on the german group, the artist deserves the recognition and this issue needs to be adressed. Maybe as a non-artist, you don't understand how severe this is.
Stealing someone's intellectual property is just as bad as stealing someone's car (or any other belonging, for that matter), and I don't know why people actually defend the offenders.

I've no interesst in bashing anyone, but this simply is not okay. And they're grown up people, they should have known that it is not okay to just take some picture they found on the internet and use it as a logo for their group and print it on everything they sell. They should have asked the artist for permission first, but the very least they abolutely should have done is give credit on their website, but they didn't.

And appearently it's not even the first time they took someone else's art and used it in their own ways to benefit from, so why cut them some slack when it's clearly undeserved?
Nothing to do with me " not being an artist..." Wich sounds rather insulting to me. You know nothing about me.
I don't have anything against your message, but I do have a problem with how you bring it.

weylyn

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by weylyn » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:15 pm

pfffffff and here we go again......same old same old

User avatar
Tatzel
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:17 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Tatzel » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:39 pm

Karen wrote: Nothing to do with me " not being an artist..." Wich sounds rather insulting to me. You know nothing about me.
I don't have anything against your message, but I do have a problem with how you bring it.
Okay, sorry, I just haven't seen you post art here and assumed you weren't into drawing or painting. Please forgive me for assuming things though that is totally human, geez.

Well, just as Valravn I take great offence in art theft, even if it is not about my own art. I hope you can understand that it's pulling on my nerves that people (and hands down I do not care who does it. Maybe the people from Taskan Club Germany are great folks, but that doesn't change the fact that they comitted a crime here) still seem to think that it's no biggie to just take someone's art and re-use it, especially when money is involved.

And thanks to this post it came out that this is the THIRD time already they're using someone else's content, which just rubs me in a way of "we don't really care, we do what we want". So this post is not nessecairily a bad thing and I don't see why I should cut them any slack when they don't even show any remorse at all and just keep repeating their offence.

And yes there are strong emotions attached to my posts, but I don't really see what's wrong with it? It's not like I'm insulting or name calling them or anything, I'm just calling them out on their wrong-doing. Since when has that been a bad thing to do?
I'm not seeking drama or am trying to make their life hell, in case that was the impression you got, I'm just seeking justice for the artist.
Image

User avatar
TerriHolt
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3274
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:56 am
Location: UK, East Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by TerriHolt » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:34 pm

I must admit, if my art was good enough that someone would want to use it and they did so without asking, i wold be livid and request that it all be taken down... and if it was printed on items that were sold for cash, i wold take the necessary legal action to prosecute... Esp if it was a piece of art that had been commissioned and somebody had paid good money for it...

Just sayin...
Image

There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

weylyn

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by weylyn » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:03 pm

O your right in that and thankfully the tone of it all is also changed again :)
Of course when someone takes something that is yours you can not allow that and you have to take action on that
I do hope the one that made this art is aware of it all and I am still hoping that the ones who are using it asked for permission first ;)

Because there is no prove of that this time I just stay believe in the good side of people that maybe they did learn from the other times ;)

Karen
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:23 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Karen » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:56 pm

I purely replied to the tone of the messages.

User avatar
Tatzel
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:17 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Tatzel » Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:05 pm

TerriHolt wrote:I must admit, if my art was good enough that someone would want to use it and they did so without asking, i wold be livid and request that it all be taken down...
I've come across people roleplaying my characters and using my art. I used to get furious over it some years ago, but I don't really see much harm in it anymore. Most of them are just kids, they don't know any better and just want to have some fun.
I've also seen people use my art as avatars for their blogs and journals. It's always awesome if they give credit, but if they don't, I just don't care anymore. I can't run after everyone and nudge them to give proper credit.

I've never come across anyone making profit off my art though or using it as company logo or whatever, but if they were to, I'd be up in arms defending my rights.
Karen wrote:I purely replied to the tone of the messages.
I still have no idea what ~*tone*~ you're refering to. I briefly stated what they (seemingly) did and linked to the originals and said that to me, this is an outrage. Because either way the watermark is missing on the logo which means they either photoshopped it away or googled for a nice wolf logo and stumbled upon the blankie. Pardon me but where exactly is the "attack" in this one?

It doesn't really matter though, what's said has been said and I can't stress enough that I don't have any agenda against the german group (even though with the Czech Vlak issue combined it might seem so, but this is completely unrelated to this one. I didn't go out in my ways to find a way to smear them or whatever. I just saw them using WSW's art in their logo a couple of photos later and this is how I got to know of this, if that is what you're refering to?)
Image

User avatar
Sylvaen
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 5211
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 3:53 pm
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Sylvaen » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:02 pm

I realize that emotions and tension are running high right now... lets all try to take a step back and breathe. :)

Has the original artist (WSW) been contacted yet? If so, what is the response (has permission been granted, etc)?
Have the Tamaskan Germany group been contacted yet (regarding copyright infringement)? If so, what is the response?

I understand that it is important to draw attention to this issue, and that theft of copyrighted material is NOT ok (after all, the TDR will soon be taking steps against the improper use of the official TDR logos, which have been legally copyrighted, so that they cannot be illegally displayed, without permission, on 'competing' websites: such as Lynn's website & forum.) While we cannot turn a blind eye to theft of artwork, I think this current issue would probably be better resolved (or at least addressed) in private, for now - at least to find out more information and to give the infringer(s) a chance to fix these mistakes / request permission / pay royalties / etc. Keep in mind, IF copyrighted images HAVE been illegally used to generate profit, and those images are already in circulation, the copyright holder / owner / original artist IS entitled to request royalties - as such, it might ultimately make more sense to pursue legal options, rather than simply 'bitching' about it. ;)
Image
The future lies before you, like a path of pure white snow...
Be careful how you tread it, for every step will show.

User avatar
Tatzel
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:17 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Tatzel » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:58 pm

Update;
WSW saw my comment on the art theft and she said she contacted them.

I probably won't get to know what's going to become of this as things will go on behind the scenes.
I just hope that the German Tamaskan Club comes to terms with the artist in a friendly manner and will let go of the logo if nessecairy.
Image

User avatar
Tatzel
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:17 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Tatzel » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:20 am

Update 2:
Münsterland and I've been shooting messages back and forth today, and appearently they got the logo from someone else (not sure at this point if money was involved and if they commissioned it from that person or if it was a free offer) who gave it to them under the impression that they're the sole creator (and thus copyright holder)
As Kirsten pointed out, they even put their own watermark on the drawing (after goling through the progress of removing the original watermarks).

I'm glad to know that the german breeders did not take the image themselves and thus did not disrespect the original artist, but just didn't know better. It is still considered theft however. I am however very sorry that they got scammed.
I offered my services to them and I hope they'll take it, so they really will get something they may call their own.
I love to design logos and icons, even though I haven't done a whole lot yet.

I'm also sorry for the harsh tone in the opening and following posts, I was under the impression that they knowingly were using something which doesn't rightfully belong to them.
I should learn to assume less and to ask more.
Image

User avatar
Sylvaen
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 5211
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 3:53 pm
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Sylvaen » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:15 am

Tatzel wrote:I should learn to assume less and to ask more.
Don't beat yourself up... I'm the same way. :oops:
We're all human and prone to making mistakes; the important thing is not that we make mistakes, but that we learn and grow from them. Anyway, hopefully this whole situation will have a good outcome - with a totally new and unique Tamaskan Germany logo! :)
Image
The future lies before you, like a path of pure white snow...
Be careful how you tread it, for every step will show.

User avatar
Hiwatari
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:52 am
Location: Colbert. GA
Contact:

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Hiwatari » Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:10 am

I just seen their logo and this talk. I must say, I'm very up set as an artiest and someone who has commissioned her before. I also know she is very much against her commissions being used for anything other then what the buyer wants. Just like I know to use as a Logo and to resell you have to buy out the rights to the photo. That is why only my paid for as a tattoo, and logo commission is displayed anywhere other then my body. I also paid for the use of it on products as that is also extra.

I truly hope she does something about this and that they change their logo. But I have a feeling their going to pull the "It's not the same" the image was altered and a lot of people who aren't as into art but have a bit of skill, tend to change a photo and say it's not the same. They flipped and changed the eye color, therefore it isn't the same photo, even if all true artiest know it's wrong.

User avatar
Nino
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3106
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:13 am
Location: Aalborg - Denmark

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Nino » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:09 am

i believe that for "it is not the same" to work the has to be at least 30% different from the original work, though it might not be so.. (I read it somewhere around a year and a half ago when doing a logo for a client that they wanted to look like someone elses work - needless to say I changed it totally so it was only the idea that was used)
>> Nino <<
Image

User avatar
Tatzel
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:17 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Tatzel » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:04 pm

Nino wrote:i believe that for "it is not the same" to work the has to be at least 30% different from the original work, though it might not be so.. (I read it somewhere around a year and a half ago when doing a logo for a client that they wanted to look like someone elses work - needless to say I changed it totally so it was only the idea that was used)
The problem is that there are a lot of grey areas involving art, art theft, re-use of original content, intellectual property, concepts and ideas.

I know that particulary taking someone else's work and slightly altering it certainly does not fall into those grey areas, it's outright theft.

So whoever the person is/was who gave the German Tam Club a go on this logo they gave them, I would love to hear what was on their mind when they just took another person's work and give it away as their own.

My guess is laziness. Whenever people get lazy, they'll try to find a fast(er) way working around something, even if it means taking the greater costs in the long run. Weird.
Image

User avatar
Hiwatari
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:52 am
Location: Colbert. GA
Contact:

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Hiwatari » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:09 pm

It would seem they talked to the artist and got limited rights to use until their art work is done? At lest that is what they said on FB

User avatar
nivenj
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:33 pm
Location: UK

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by nivenj » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:14 pm

Hiwatari wrote:It would seem they talked to the artist and got limited rights to use until their art work is done? At lest that is what they said on FB
Are you getting the German and British clubs confused?
Image
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.” --Aristotle *

User avatar
Tiantai
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 2557
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:16 pm
Location: Canada (North York, Ontario)

Re: Art theft on the German Tamaskan Club Website

Post by Tiantai » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:50 am

I see this happen at flea market booths as well, buttons with artworks belonging to someone else being sold without the original artist's permission. In my opinion such an act definitely calls for lawsuit.
Image

Post Reply