All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments here)

A place to share photos of your Tamaskan Dogs: puppies, adults, etc.
User avatar
Katlin
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 2739
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:48 am
Location: Calgary, AB
Contact:

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Katlin » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:06 am

Cryptorchidism, that's what Wylie may have...means that one testicle or both never descend. It sucks...
Polarose Tamaskan
Polardog Outfitters
Owner of Sierra Kaweah RN RI TDI TRN TTDN CRN-MCL @ Polarose

User avatar
caninesrock
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:44 pm
Location: USA

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by caninesrock » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:47 am

balto13 wrote: that was a little hard for me to follow so I screen printed the "match maker" results of putting Geri x Mas'Kahn into the system

Image
So, if I'm reading that right, the first column is Mas'Kahn and Gerri. Mas'kahn is Slyvaen Firefox and Gerri is Blufawn Ginger,correct? And the second column is their parents? So,Mas'Kahn's parents are Blustag Lapis Lazuli and Blustag River Jordan? And Gerri's parents are Jackal and Alba Zuul? What are the dogs in the 3rd column?

User avatar
arianwenarie
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1244
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 5:07 pm
Location: USA

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by arianwenarie » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:08 am

caninesrock wrote:
balto13 wrote: that was a little hard for me to follow so I screen printed the "match maker" results of putting Geri x Mas'Kahn into the system

Image
So, if I'm reading that right, the first column is Mas'Kahn and Gerri. Mas'kahn is Slyvaen Firefox and Gerri is Blufawn Ginger,correct? And the second column is their parents? So,Mas'Kahn's parents are Blustag Lapis Lazuli and Blustag River Jordan? And Gerri's parents are Jackal and Alba Zuul? What are the dogs in the 3rd column?
The dogs in the third column are the parents of the 2nd column. :)

User avatar
caninesrock
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:44 pm
Location: USA

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by caninesrock » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:55 am

arianwenarie wrote: The dogs in the third column are the parents of the 2nd column. :)
Ok. Thank you. I looked at the siblings of both Geri and Mas'Kahn and it appears that Mas'Kahn has a breeding sister in the database as it lists her as having several offspring. Her call name is Vega and her full name is Slyvaen Vatrena Lisica. No idea if she's as nice looking as her brother or not though. Her health looks good. The hip score is a bit high,but not too bad considering its only a 10 out of a possible 18. Sure, a hip score of like 5 or less would be ideal,but 10 is still healthy and a decent enough score. Not sure what DM stands for,but it's says that she's "Clear",which I assume means she doesn't have it and also doesn't carry the gene for it whatever it is. The other sections on the health part are blank,so I guess that means she's clear on them too. Now, if only Geri had breeding siblings. As it is, she only had 1 male full sibling and he is not breeding as far as I know as it has no offspring listed for him. All the rest of her siblings are not breeding,but they are females anyway,so they couldn't be crossed with Mas'Kahn's only breeding sibling since she is a female too. None of Geri's offspring appear to have had offspring of their own either. I know I read somewhere that Ayla's owner was thinking about breeding her,but again, it's the same problem with only 2 females and no males. I looked at Geri's parents and both those dogs belong to Blufawn and/or Blustag,so it's not possible to get another litter from them that could then be used for breeding. Geri's grandparents,however, on her mother's side are both at Alba, so its possible they could be bred again and produce a dog simliar to Alba Zuul, who is Geri's maternal grandmother. However, on her father's side, her grandparents are Oskari and Pauline and I'm not sure if Blustag owns them or not or if their owners just let her cross them into the breed. Either way, I don't think I'll be able to get another Oskari/Pauline litter as they wouldn't even technically be Tamaskans as Oskari is a Czech Wolfdog and Pauline is a Siberian Husky mix breed with lord only knows what else in her. And so, breeding the two Alba dogs' resulting offspring to a Oskari/Pauline litter, would be more like a outcross litter I would think, assuming its even possible to get an Oskari/Pauline litter anymore and that the owner of Alba would be willing to do an outcross litter like that and the owner of Vega would even be willing to then cross a male from the outcross litter with her female Vega and so on. Not to mention, I can't see Oskari or Pauline's health records as they are not registered in the database as foundation dogs. The two Alba dog's personal health is good ,but one does has siblings with epilesy. I don't know if that means her offspring have a chance of inheriting it too since her siblings had it. The other Alba dog has had offspring that had crypto....that thing about the testicles,but his personal health is good and if all of the pups he has end up being female, then I don't think that would end up being an issue(atleast not in the short term) .

PS, btw, the database appears to have its own seperate site now:
For pedigree and health info:
http://www.tamaskan-database.com/database/index

For the matchmaker function:
http://www.tamaskan-database.com/database/matchmaker

Speaking of, I was looking at the database and it says there are only 335 entries in it. Are there really only 335 Tamaskans in the world? I knew they were a rare breed,but I didn't realize they were that rare.

User avatar
Nino
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3106
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:13 am
Location: Aalborg - Denmark

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Nino » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:19 pm

Paulina (Pauline) was a pedigree Siberian Husky and has passed away unfortunately.. any litters of her's are not possible, and another offspring of Oskari is not imho wise nor wished for in the breed

Mas'kann should not be mated (as he is not with both his testies down).
Vega is now owned by Debby, depending on individual opinion I think she is not in the same category as Mas'kann looks wise, but she was bred with Sampo and the offspring seems to have turned out very nice - although I am not aware if they are health tested yet, which is a major factor in knowing how they really have turned out.
>> Nino <<
Image

User avatar
caninesrock
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:44 pm
Location: USA

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by caninesrock » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:48 pm

Nino wrote:Paulina (Pauline) was a pedigree Siberian Husky and has passed away unfortunately.. any litters of her's are not possible
Oh. That's really sad. I didn't know that. Was it old age or something else like a health issue or some kind of accident(like being hit by a car for example)? What did she look like? Agouti, sable, wolf grey, or just an ordinary black and white or gray and white husky color? If she was a purebred husky and not a mix like I thought, it might not be too hard to find another husky that looks similiar to her.

and another offspring of Oskari is not imho wise nor wished for in the breed
Why? Is there something wrong with him health-wise or are you referring to the fact that his son Jackal is already in so much of the breed so it wouldn't be enough genetic diversity still? I'm sure another purebred Czech Wolfdog can be found that looks simliar to Oskari and then bred with another purebred husky that looks simliar to Paulina and then their offspring can be outcrossed into the breed. Weren't there already plans to do more Czech Wolfdog outcrosses anyway? Adding in husky/Czech Wolfdog outcrosses rather than pure Czech Wolfdogs could tame down the difficulty level of training that would be put into the breed with Czech Wolfdogs. I know huskies aren't really easy to train either,but I think they are easier than Czech Wolfdogs.
Mas'kann should not be mated (as he is not with both his testies down).
I know. I wasn't suggesting that he should be. Just out of curiosity though, is that a health issue for a dog to have non-visible testes(i.e. that effect their quality of life and/or physical ability to breed in someway) or just an aesthetic thing? Btw, I want to make a disclaimer here that I am in no way saying that I want dogs with non-visible testes to be bred. I'm just thinking that since the line of dogs(i.e. Mas'Khan's sister) I want puppies from has this issue in it, should I happen to get a pup with that same problem, would it be some kind of expensive medical problem that I will have to pay for and will it affect the quality of life of my future dog?

Vega is now owned by Debby, depending on individual opinion I think she is not in the same category as Mas'kann looks wise, but she was bred with Sampo and the offspring seems to have turned out very nice - although I am not aware if they are health tested yet, which is a major factor in knowing how they really have turned out.
Are there any pics of Vega, Sampo, and their offspring on the forum? There are no photos of the dogs on the database. How old is this litter?

Edit:
I have found pictures of Vega. She isn't a nice looking as her brother though.
http://www.tamaskan-forum.com/viewtopic ... hilit=Vega

I did,however, manage to find pictures of two of her offspring on the forum:
Daya,who is a nice looking dog,but still not wolfy-looking enough for my taste.
http://www.tamaskan-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3116

And Tana, who I think is absolutely gorgeous and a bit wolfy, though not as much as Mas'Kahn in either respect in my opinion. However, if she was bred with a wolfy-looking male, I wouldn't mind settling for pups from her. Maybe she could even be used in an outcross litter with a Czech Wolfdog to enhance the wolfy look she has even more in her resulting offspring and maybe those offspring would look as good as Mas'Kahn, yet have better health than him, and could be used for breeding since he can't or shouldn't because of his health.
http://www.tamaskan-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3841


As for Mas'Kahn, it appears there have been a few topics on whether or not Mas'Kahn can breed as his owner wants to breed him and in some posts, some TDR members indicate that they might make an acception for a one-time litter,but are undecided. Has the decision ever been made? One topic is in French so I can't read it,but in the other two, they just seem to end without a decision being made either way or atleast not being officially stated by the TDR if he can breed or not. I was going to ask what the chances of his mother and father breeding again would be,but I saw in one of the topics also that his father had the same condition and was neutered.So,that's out too.

These are 3 topics it was discussed in:

http://www.tamaskan-forum.com/viewtopic ... hilit=Vega

http://www.tamaskan-forum.com/viewtopic ... a&start=50

http://www.tamaskan-forum.com/viewtopic ... hilit=Vega

User avatar
arianwenarie
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1244
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 5:07 pm
Location: USA

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by arianwenarie » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:05 am

Sylvaen's Firefox litter was somewhat of a surprise and definitely not planned as the parents are half-siblings - it's a close breeding and no reputable breeder would intentionally do a mating this close. I think Mas'kann just so happened to inherit much more of the CWD genes through his grandsire, Jackal, which makes him look more CWD than Tamaskan...which is also what makes him a very handsome boy. :)

You may want to wait for a breeder in Europe to do an outcross with a CWD (or CWD mix) if you really want that look. However, since you're in the US, be sure the county/city/state laws don't have restrictions on owning wolf look-alike breed(s) and/or wolf-hybrids. I know CWDs are registered as a dog breed with the FCI and in the FSS of the AKC, but you never know how the local officials will interpret that.

Or, you could even wait to see what pups Vala produces...Vala is out of Vega x Sampo. You already know Vega; but Sampo is out of Alba's Xena & Odin (littermate to Tarheel's Blaze and Conchur's Inna). From the videos I've see and stories I've heard, Sampo has a fantastic temperament. I'd also take a pup out of him in a heartbeat despite him having inherited his sire's curly tail. 8-)

User avatar
caninesrock
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:44 pm
Location: USA

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by caninesrock » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:38 pm

arianwenarie wrote:Sylvaen's Firefox litter was somewhat of a surprise and definitely not planned as the parents are half-siblings - it's a close breeding and no reputable breeder would intentionally do a mating this close.
Oh. I didn't know Jasper and Vixen were siblings or that it was an accidental mating.
I think Mas'kann just so happened to inherit much more of the CWD genes through his grandsire, Jackal, which makes him look more CWD than Tamaskan...which is also what makes him a very handsome boy.
I do really like the look of Czech Wolfdogs so that could be it. I think Geri also has alot of Czech Wolfdog in her too so that could be why I like her looks so much as well. Blufawn actually offered Geri for sale to someone here and they didn't take her. :shock: She is gorgeous. I would take her in a heartbeat if I had the resources to own a Tamaskan right now and she was offered to me.

This is the topic where it was mentioned that Geri was for sale:
http://www.tamaskan-forum.com/viewtopic ... +O%27Shean
You may want to wait for a breeder in Europe to do an outcross with a CWD (or CWD mix) if you really want that look.
Maybe. I do like the look. I kind of want a pure Tamaskan though.
However, since you're in the US, be sure the county/city/state laws don't have restrictions on owning wolf look-alike breed(s) and/or wolf-hybrids. I know CWDs are registered as a dog breed with the FCI and in the FSS of the AKC, but you never know how the local officials will interpret that.
I live in Texas, so at a state level, even actual wolf-dog crosses,including high-contents, are legal. I'd have to look more into local laws though.
Or, you could even wait to see what pups Vala produces...Vala is out of Vega x Sampo. You already know Vega; but Sampo is out of Alba's Xena & Odin (littermate to Tarheel's Blaze and Conchur's Inna). From the videos I've see and stories I've heard, Sampo has a fantastic temperament. I'd also take a pup out of him in a heartbeat despite him having inherited his sire's curly tail. 8-)
I haven't seen Vala,but I love Tana's,who is also out of Vega,looks. Is Tana not going to be a breeding dog?

I was looking at the database and I've come up with a solution to my Mas'Kahn/Geri line problem I think. Although Ayla,who is offspring of Geri, and Vega,who is a sibling of Mas'Kahn, are both female, if one is bred and produces a male breeding puppy and the other is breed and produces a female breeding puppy, their pups can be breed together. So for,example, Tana could be bred with a male pup from Ayla.
I'm not saying to use Tana specifically,just trying to give an example of what I'm trying to say. Although if she is a breeding dog and her owner is willing to cross her to one of Ayla's future offspring, that would be great too. :lol:

Edit: I found pictures of Vala. She doesn't look as nice as Tana,but she looks ok.

Pics here:
http://www.tamaskan-forum.com/viewtopic ... hilit=Vala

Edit again:
Oh. I just found another gorgeous male. I don't think he's related to Mas'Kahn or Geri. He's still so handsome though. His name is Ravi and I'm not sure if he's a breeding dog or not.
Vajente wrote:well Ravi is from Jackal but deff got his coat from his malamute mother
Image

User avatar
arianwenarie
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1244
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 5:07 pm
Location: USA

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by arianwenarie » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:09 pm

The link that you posted is actually a re-homing thread for Shogun; not Gerri. ;) Shogun is Ayla's sire.

Part of the joy of not yet being able to take on a Tamaskan (yet) is that you get to sit back and figure out which line you want a pup from, take the time to talk to breeders about their breeding plans and if the time still isn't right, you can see what pups the lines you want a pup from will throw. I have had my heart set on Hawthorne for quite some time now and I've seen two litters that Freyja has produced - they're absolutely stunning. I am also following Kana's offspring with Jaeger - I'm not too fond of the GSD-like mask that a couple of them have, but we'll see what pups she produces this next time around. I had hoped to see her bred with a different male, but alas, it's up to the breeder. ;)

If you can't already tell, I'm pretty dead-set on a puppy from the OBX line...if Tundra and Blaze hadn't passed so suddenly, I'd take a pup from this pair indefinitely.

Which part of Texas are you from? You could email your local city/county to see what their rules are. The city/county that I live in have their city ordinances posted online, and don't mention anything about legality issues with wolf-dog hybrids nor wolf look-a-likes.

Although Ayla is out of Gerri, I do see much of Shogun's and her granddam, Zuul's, features in her. Gerri....not so much. :\ You also have to take into consideration that Gerri is littermate to Blufawn Cinnamon (Cindy) who was diagnosed with severe HD at a young age. Her hip score is BVA 70+ and is listed in the open database. Other than Vala, I do not think any of the other Quicksilver pups are registered as breeding dogs at the moment. To be more precise, Vala has yet to be health tested.

I suppose the point I am trying to make is that even though litter siblings are used for breeding, the chances of them producing a puppy that is close to their sibling isn't very high because of the way genetics work. (Someone do correct me if I am wrong about this though...)

Ravi is indeed a very handsome boy - I can't wait to see how his pups look when they grow up. <-- I am referring to an accidental mating with a GSD. This litter is not registered with the TDR.

Rahne

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Rahne » Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:29 pm

caninesrock wrote:Oh. I just found another gorgeous male. I don't think he's related to Mas'Kahn or Geri. He's still so handsome though. His name is Ravi and I'm not sure if he's a breeding dog or not.
All the dogs you like very much... they all look similar... because they are all very close related. Their (grand)sire Jackal has such a big influence on his descendants. Mas'Khann has Jackal as grandfather on both sides of his pedigree, Geri and Ravi both have Jackal as father. I don't think it's a good idea to line-breed on Jackal so close, because he has passed on several health issues and he's just everywhere in the Tamaskan breed. It would be a better idea to get a pup from one of Jackal his offspring (like Ravi who is a breeding dog) bred to another bloodline. I'm sure that some of the pups will still look like Jackal/CsV as his genes seem to be very strong in 'type' ;)

Edit: As far as I understood Tana her owner wants to breed a litter from her, and the stud she is interested in using would be an outcross. This was just planning stages though, nothing set in stone yet.

User avatar
Tana
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:29 am
Location: Slovenia

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Tana » Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:17 pm

Rahne wrote:Edit: As far as I understood Tana her owner wants to breed a litter from her, and the stud she is interested in using would be an outcross. This was just planning stages though, nothing set in stone yet.
Yes, that is correct. First she must pass health tests (hips) and be DNA profiled. Then I am interested in outcross breeding, if would be approval from TDR. But for now this is just plans, nothing set in stone yet, as you said.

User avatar
Cornelia1986
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:00 am
Location: 9500 Villach

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Cornelia1986 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:28 pm

Tana wrote:
Rahne wrote:Edit: As far as I understood Tana her owner wants to breed a litter from her, and the stud she is interested in using would be an outcross. This was just planning stages though, nothing set in stone yet.
Yes, that is correct. First she must pass health tests (hips) and be DNA profiled. Then I am interested in outcross breeding, if would be approval from TDR. But for now this is just plans, nothing set in stone yet, as you said.
I'm curious :D What male would you take for this outcross (if the TDR approves it)? Do you have pics?
There once was a wolf-
a wolf lonlier than the mountains

User avatar
Tana
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:29 am
Location: Slovenia

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Tana » Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:48 pm

I don't know, if the owner would agree to make publicly announce, because there is nothing certain. I'll say only that I like CSWs ;) (and working type GSDs but this probably really won't be approved :roll:)

User avatar
Cornelia1986
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:00 am
Location: 9500 Villach

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Cornelia1986 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:50 pm

Tana wrote:I don't know, if the owner would agree to make publicly announce, because there is nothing certain. I'll say only that I like CSWs ;) (and working type GSDs but this probably really won't be approved :roll:)

Ah oh! That's ok :D I also like working type GDSs and there are some really nice looking. So we will have to wait if the TDR approves it -.-' :lol: I hate my curiousity ;)
There once was a wolf-
a wolf lonlier than the mountains

User avatar
Tana
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:29 am
Location: Slovenia

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Tana » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:07 pm

Hehe no problem, I would have the same problems with curiousity :D Yes, we have to wait and hope :)

User avatar
Cornelia1986
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:00 am
Location: 9500 Villach

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Cornelia1986 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:09 pm

Fingers crossed neighbour ;)
There once was a wolf-
a wolf lonlier than the mountains

User avatar
Tana
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:29 am
Location: Slovenia

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Tana » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:13 pm

Thank you neighbour :D

balto13
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:40 am

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by balto13 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:12 pm

Tana wrote:Hehe no problem, I would have the same problems with curiousity :D Yes, we have to wait and hope :)
:lol: I am glad you understand because the curiosity was killing me but I didn't want to ask since it wasn't mentioned in the first place. I am anxious to see who it is when or if the dog is approved :)

User avatar
Nino
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3106
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:13 am
Location: Aalborg - Denmark

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Nino » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:12 pm

Oskari (Oxbow Léva-Nève) is not only in Jackal, he is also both father and grandfather (mothers father) in Dingo, plus he is in several other dogs backgrounds if I remember correctly - therefore I would not think that there was wished for any other offspring of his to be added to the Tamaskan nor any closely related dogs - as it simply would not make sense to the gene pool - specially considering the testies problems and the hip problems that comes through Jackal and possibly is from Oskari..
>> Nino <<
Image

User avatar
arianwenarie
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1244
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 5:07 pm
Location: USA

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by arianwenarie » Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:29 pm

Nino wrote:Oskari (Oxbow Léva-Nève) is not only in Jackal, he is also both father and grandfather (mothers father) in Dingo, plus he is in several other dogs backgrounds if I remember correctly - therefore I would not think that there was wished for any other offspring of his to be added to the Tamaskan nor any closely related dogs - as it simply would not make sense to the gene pool - specially considering the testies problems and the hip problems that comes through Jackal and possibly is from Oskari..
If I am not mistaken, then Oskari does show up in the pedigree of 5 Polar Speed dogs that Lynn purchased: Zev, Magnus, Susi, Dingo, Jackal.

User avatar
Tana
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:29 am
Location: Slovenia

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Tana » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:10 pm

Nino wrote:Oskari (Oxbow Léva-Nève) is not only in Jackal, he is also both father and grandfather (mothers father) in Dingo, plus he is in several other dogs backgrounds if I remember correctly - therefore I would not think that there was wished for any other offspring of his to be added to the Tamaskan nor any closely related dogs - as it simply would not make sense to the gene pool - specially considering the testies problems and the hip problems that comes through Jackal and possibly is from Oskari..
If I understand correctly, you want to say that Quicksilver litter have to much Jackal in their backround, so they are not "suitable" for breeding? Even for outcrosses, where there is no Oskari?

User avatar
Nino
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3106
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:13 am
Location: Aalborg - Denmark

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Nino » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:36 pm

Tana wrote:
Nino wrote:Oskari (Oxbow Léva-Nève) is not only in Jackal, he is also both father and grandfather (mothers father) in Dingo, plus he is in several other dogs backgrounds if I remember correctly - therefore I would not think that there was wished for any other offspring of his to be added to the Tamaskan nor any closely related dogs - as it simply would not make sense to the gene pool - specially considering the testies problems and the hip problems that comes through Jackal and possibly is from Oskari..
If I understand correctly, you want to say that Quicksilver litter have to much Jackal in their backround, so they are not "suitable" for breeding? Even for outcrosses, where there is no Oskari?
Noooo.. definately not!
I was talking about adding in another outcross from the same lines as Oskari.. as caninesrock was talking about earlier..

I would like to see your girl mated as I think she is gorgeous!
>> Nino <<
Image

User avatar
Tiantai
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 2558
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:16 pm
Location: Canada (North York, Ontario)

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Tiantai » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:23 am

I would rather see a fresh unrelated Czechoslovakian vlcak added into the genepool than to see line-breedings between dogs that have a common ancestry in the genepool from within the last few generations
Image

User avatar
Tana
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:29 am
Location: Slovenia

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Tana » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:51 am

Nino wrote:Noooo.. definately not!
I was talking about adding in another outcross from the same lines as Oskari.. as caninesrock was talking about earlier..

I would like to see your girl mated as I think she is gorgeous!
Aaaaa ok. I didn't know to whom it relates.
Tiantai wrote:I would rather see a fresh unrelated Czechoslovakian vlcak added into the genepool than to see line-breedings between dogs that have a common ancestry in the genepool from within the last few generations
I agree!

User avatar
caninesrock
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:44 pm
Location: USA

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by caninesrock » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:22 pm

The link that you posted is actually a re-homing thread for Shogun; not Gerri. ;) Shogun is Ayla's sire.
I know,but in one of the posts, someone mentions that Blufawn offered them Geri as a breeding dog when they asked for a puppy.

Here it is, posted by Juice:
are you going to call liz or would you like me to do it.
i had asked jennie about blufawn sunshine on my shoulders which is advertised on preloved for £450 and she told me that the 3 last pups were £750 and that £450 was for winnie but it didn't say this on the advert. i said i wanted another breeding bitch which is why i asked about the pup, i then got an email from jennie offering me zuul or gerri for £250 with all health tests. i think they are trying to get rid of some of jennies dogs for when she has the baby, should have thought about that before getting pregnant i hate people that do this.
Part of the joy of not yet being able to take on a Tamaskan (yet) is that you get to sit back and figure out which line you want a pup from, take the time to talk to breeders about their breeding plans and if the time still isn't right, you can see what pups the lines you want a pup from will throw. I have had my heart set on Hawthorne for quite some time now and I've seen two litters that Freyja has produced - they're absolutely stunning. I am also following Kana's offspring with Jaeger - I'm not too fond of the GSD-like mask that a couple of them have, but we'll see what pups she produces this next time around. I had hoped to see her bred with a different male, but alas, it's up to the breeder.If you can't already tell, I'm pretty dead-set on a puppy from the OBX line...if Tundra and Blaze hadn't passed so suddenly, I'd take a pup from this pair indefinitely.
Yeah, Raven,who is out of Freyja from Hawthorne, is gorgeous. Kana at Tarheel is also a gorgeous dog. She looks very similiar to Blaze except she has bigger ears.I like Jaeger's looks a little too though even if he isn't quite that wolfy-looking compared to Kana.
It's ashame about Blaze and Tundra.

I was looking at pics of Tamaskans and made a list of ones I like:
1.Geri-No longer a breeding dog as she belongs to Blufawn.
2.Mas'Kahn-Not allowed for breeding due to health issues.
3.Ravi-Breeding Dog
4.Zora-Breeding dog I think?
5.Kumho-Unknown status?
6.Tana-Possible future breeding dog
7.Blaze-Deceased
8.Tuskyn-If he's the dog I'm thinking of,whose owner is in Austarlia,then he's been neutered?
9.Jaeger-Breeding dog
10.Kana-Breeding dog
11.Ayla-Possible future breeding dog
12.Raven-Breeding dog I think?

So,out of the 12 dogs I like, only 7 are breeding or planned to breed, maybe 8 depending on Kumho's status. I suppose that's not so bad if I got all of their statuses correct. There would be only 4 that can't be bred. Blaze because he's sadly deceased :(, Tuskyn because he's neutered, Geri because she belongs to Blufawn, and Mas'Kahn because of his health issues.
Which part of Texas are you from? You could email your local city/county to see what their rules are. The city/county that I live in have their city ordinances posted online, and don't mention anything about legality issues with wolf-dog hybrids nor wolf look-a-likes.
I live in Houston. I suspect I'd have to move to a suburb to get a wolfdog as Houston is a big city. I know when I lived near Spring and Bamble, Texas and volunteered at a wolfdog sanctuary in Montgomery,Texas that they were legal in those locations as far as I was aware. As for an AKC registered breed like a Czech Wolfdog, I don't think I'd have a problem as I could provide proof that it is an AKC registered dog breed with wolf having been removed probably atleast 20 generations from each dog minus unscruptulous breeders who would have added wolf back in of course. And I don't think they can make a law banning dogs that look wolfy but have no wolf in them. If that were the case, it would be illegal even to have AKC registered Siberian Huskies or Alaskan Malamutes as some look very wolfy to those not familiar to what true wolves and wolfdogs look like.
Although Ayla is out of Gerri, I do see much of Shogun's and her granddam, Zuul's, features in her. Gerri....not so much. :\
Yeah,that's why I had wanted a Geri x Mas'Kahn pup before I knew about Mas'Kahn's health issues and how closely related they were to each other. Both dogs are gorgeous and very wolfy-looking and so would've produced gorgeous very wolfy-looking pups. However, if you were to take Geri who is very wolfy looking and breed her with a very doggie looking Tamaskan, like say Darwin for example as I personally percieve him as quite doggie looking, then there is a chance the offspring would all be doggie looking and not inherit any of Geri's wolfy-looks, whereas breeding Geri who is wolfy-looking to another wolfy-looking Tamaskan like Mas'Khan, would theoretically produce atleast some if not all very wolfy looking puppies. This is all hypothetically of course as I know Gerri and Mas'Kahn are not going to be bred at all to each or to Darwin or to any other Tamaskan.
You also have to take into consideration that Gerri is littermate to Blufawn Cinnamon (Cindy) who was diagnosed with severe HD at a young age. Her hip score is BVA 70+ and is listed in the open database.
Oh. I didn't know about that. Poor baby.:( Just because Gerri's sister has the problem,doesn't necessarily mean that Geri has it too though.
Other than Vala, I do not think any of the other Quicksilver pups are registered as breeding dogs at the moment. To be more precise, Vala has yet to be health tested.
Ok.Thanks for letting me know. It appears that Tana's owner is thinking of breeding her to an outcross dog.
I suppose the point I am trying to make is that even though litter siblings are used for breeding, the chances of them producing a puppy that is close to their sibling isn't very high because of the way genetics work. (Someone do correct me if I am wrong about this though...)
I kind of figured as much since even in the same litter,appearances can drastically differ. For example, just comparing Mas'Kahn's looks to his only breeding sister and they look extremely different despite being full siblings from the same exact parents.I suppose I was just having wishful thinking.
Ravi is indeed a very handsome boy - I can't wait to see how his pups look when they grow up. <-- I am referring to an accidental mating with a GSD. This litter is not registered with the TDR.
Well,at least I know he's not neutered. Lol.:lol:
All the dogs you like very much... they all look similar... because they are all very close related. Their (grand)sire Jackal has such a big influence on his descendants. Mas'Khann has Jackal as grandfather on both sides of his pedigree, Geri and Ravi both have Jackal as father. I don't think it's a good idea to line-breed on Jackal so close, because he has passed on several health issues and he's just everywhere in the Tamaskan breed.
Oh, I didn't know that they were all related to Jackal or that jackal had health problems. Thanks for letting me know. So if Jackal is everywhere in the breed, are there any Tamaskans that are not related to him?
It would be a better idea to get a pup from one of Jackal his offspring (like Ravi who is a breeding dog) bred to another bloodline. I'm sure that some of the pups will still look like Jackal/CsV as his genes seem to be very strong in 'type'
So Ravi is a breeding dog? I think the pairs I would want from him are Ravi x Kana or Ravi x Tana. But I don't know if those two females are related to him or not. It's confusing trying to keep track of whose related to who. :?. He might also make good pups outcrossed to a Czech Wolfdog. Same with Tana and Kana,who might make good pups outcrossed to Czech Wolfdog.

Edit: As far as I understood Tana her owner wants to breed a litter from her, and the stud she is interested in using would be an outcross. This was just planning stages though, nothing set in stone yet.
Awesome. I hope the outcross they go for is a Czech Wolfdog.;)
I don't know, if the owner would agree to make publicly announce, because there is nothing certain. I'll say only that I like CSWs ;) (and working type GSDs but this probably really won't be approved
Glad to hear you are thinking about breeding her if she passes health tests. ^^ I think you should go for Czech Wolfdog. :D Many Tamaskans already look too shepherdy in my opinion.
Oskari (Oxbow Léva-Nève) is not only in Jackal, he is also both father and grandfather (mothers father) in Dingo, plus he is in several other dogs backgrounds if I remember correctly - therefore I would not think that there was wished for any other offspring of his to be added to the Tamaskan nor any closely related dogs - as it simply would not make sense to the gene pool - specially considering the testies problems and the hip problems that comes through Jackal and possibly is from Oskari..
Oh. I didn't know Jackal had health problems. Yeah,probably not a good idea to add Oskari,but maybe another unrelated Czech Wolfdog or Czech Wolfdog/Husky cross?
I would rather see a fresh unrelated Czechoslovakian vlcak added into the genepool than to see line-breedings between dogs that have a common ancestry in the genepool from within the last few generations.
Yes. More Czech Wolfdog please.:D Unrelated to Oskari of course.

User avatar
Vajente
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:02 am
Location: Buinerveen, The Netherlands

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Vajente » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:54 am

caninesrock wrote:
It would be a better idea to get a pup from one of Jackal his offspring (like Ravi who is a breeding dog) bred to another bloodline. I'm sure that some of the pups will still look like Jackal/CsV as his genes seem to be very strong in 'type'
So Ravi is a breeding dog? I think the pairs I would want from him are Ravi x Kana or Ravi x Tana. But I don't know if those two females are related to him or not. It's confusing trying to keep track of whose related to who. :?. He might also make good pups outcrossed to a Czech Wolfdog. Same with Tana and Kana,who might make good pups outcrossed to Czech Wolfdog.
my Ravi is a breeding dog yes. Ravi x Tana would be a no go since Tana allready has 2 times Jackal behind her. Ravi x Kana would be possible (there is Jackal in Kana but it's futher away) but I don't think Tarheel is interested on using him on her. Another female of your list that would be suitable for Ravi is Raven.

I see you changed your profile pic to a picture of Maverick, he is Ravi's full brother (Ravi is prettier ofcourse :lol: )

User avatar
caninesrock
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:44 pm
Location: USA

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by caninesrock » Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:54 am

Vajente wrote: my Ravi is a breeding dog yes. Ravi x Tana would be a no go since Tana allready has 2 times Jackal behind her. Ravi x Kana would be possible (there is Jackal in Kana but it's futher away) but I don't think Tarheel is interested on using him on her. Another female of your list that would be suitable for Ravi is Raven.

I see you changed your profile pic to a picture of Maverick, he is Ravi's full brother (Ravi is prettier ofcourse :lol: )
Oh. I didn't know that about Tana. So much Jackal in the breed. :shock: That's too bad. Maybe you could try talking with Tarheel? He might agree if you ask him. Then,again, he might not though. I know some people only want to breed dogs they own themselves. I don't know if he's that way or not though. Raven is nice but I prefer Kana and Tana's looks,but Tana is as you said too closely related through Jackal.

Oh. I found the pic on Wikipedia. It was either listed as Creative Commons license with permission to use or public domain. I don't remember which one. There were several Tamaskan pics on Wiki and some of them were public domain and others were Creative Commons. I didn't want to steal a picture of someone's Tamaskan without their permission so I got both my avatars from Wiki. ;) I didn't know this dog was Ravi's brother. I choose him as my avatar because I thought he was the most wolfy-looking dog of the Tamaskans featured on Wikimedia.

User avatar
arianwenarie
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1244
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 5:07 pm
Location: USA

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by arianwenarie » Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:28 am

caninesrock wrote:
Vajente wrote: my Ravi is a breeding dog yes. Ravi x Tana would be a no go since Tana allready has 2 times Jackal behind her. Ravi x Kana would be possible (there is Jackal in Kana but it's futher away) but I don't think Tarheel is interested on using him on her. Another female of your list that would be suitable for Ravi is Raven.

I see you changed your profile pic to a picture of Maverick, he is Ravi's full brother (Ravi is prettier ofcourse :lol: )
Oh. I didn't know that about Tana. So much Jackal in the breed. :shock: That's too bad. Maybe you could try talking with Tarheel? He might agree if you ask him. Then,again, he might not though. I know some people only want to breed dogs they own themselves. I don't know if he's that way or not though. Raven is nice but I prefer Kana and Tana's looks,but Tana is as you said too closely related through Jackal.

Oh. I found the pic on Wikipedia. It was either listed as Creative Commons license with permission to use or public domain. I don't remember which one. There were several Tamaskan pics on Wiki and some of them were public domain and others were Creative Commons. I didn't want to steal a picture of someone's Tamaskan without their permission so I got both my avatars from Wiki. ;) I didn't know this dog was Ravi's brother. I choose him as my avatar because I thought he was the most wolfy-looking dog of the Tamaskans featured on Wikimedia.
Tana is out of Vega x Sampo. Vega is out of Vixen x Jasper. That means Tana's maternal grandsire is Jackal for both maternal grandparents. ;)

I believe John @ Tarheel has mentioned Kana's recent mating in July to Jaeger will be her last litter. Although, I dont think he mentioned why.

User avatar
Sylvaen
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 5206
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 3:53 pm
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Sylvaen » Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:14 am

caninesrock wrote:Awesome. I hope the outcross they go for is a Czech Wolfdog.;)
I don't know, if the owner would agree to make publicly announce, because there is nothing certain. I'll say only that I like CSWs ;) (and working type GSDs but this probably really won't be approved
Glad to hear you are thinking about breeding her if she passes health tests. ^^ I think you should go for Czech Wolfdog. :D Many Tamaskans already look too shepherdy in my opinion.
Oskari (Oxbow Léva-Nève) is not only in Jackal, he is also both father and grandfather (mothers father) in Dingo, plus he is in several other dogs backgrounds if I remember correctly - therefore I would not think that there was wished for any other offspring of his to be added to the Tamaskan nor any closely related dogs - as it simply would not make sense to the gene pool - specially considering the testies problems and the hip problems that comes through Jackal and possibly is from Oskari..
Oh. I didn't know Jackal had health problems. Yeah,probably not a good idea to add Oskari,but maybe another unrelated Czech Wolfdog or Czech Wolfdog/Husky cross?
I would rather see a fresh unrelated Czechoslovakian vlcak added into the genepool than to see line-breedings between dogs that have a common ancestry in the genepool from within the last few generations.
Yes. More Czech Wolfdog please.:D Unrelated to Oskari of course.
You have to keep in mind that certain members / groups in the international Tamaskan community are very much against the idea of adding fresh Czech Wolfdog content to the bloodlines... if I remember correctly, the American and German clubs were very outspoken when Kaylee (Czech Wolfdog) was added as an outcross, although she later turned out to be infertile and did not produce any puppies. Although the TDR Committee voted and approved her use for an outcross mating, the Tamaskan Germany club posted this notice on their website:

Image
http://www.tamaskan-germany.de/news/news-2012.html

Personally, I am not against the adding of more CWD genes to the Tamaskan genepool but it must be done very carefully, with due consideration to the specific bloodlines (it goes almost without saying that not all Tamaskan bloodlines would be suitable).
caninesrock wrote:
Vajente wrote: my Ravi is a breeding dog yes. Ravi x Tana would be a no go since Tana allready has 2 times Jackal behind her. Ravi x Kana would be possible (there is Jackal in Kana but it's futher away) but I don't think Tarheel is interested on using him on her. Another female of your list that would be suitable for Ravi is Raven.
Oh. I didn't know that about Tana. So much Jackal in the breed. :shock: That's too bad. Maybe you could try talking with Tarheel? He might agree if you ask him. Then,again, he might not though. I know some people only want to breed dogs they own themselves. I don't know if he's that way or not though. Raven is nice but I prefer Kana and Tana's looks,but Tana is as you said too closely related through Jackal.
Jackal's genes are already very well represented within the breed (worldwide) so it doesn't really make sense for Tarheel to import Ravi's sperm, when there are other Jackal offspring already available in America (Zephyr, etc)... much healthier to use fresh stud dogs instead!! (Diesel, Sampo, Xantho, Ayasca, etc etc etc) - or look for suitable outcrosses.
Image
The future lies before you, like a path of pure white snow...
Be careful how you tread it, for every step will show.

User avatar
wolfwoman
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Posts: 480
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:55 pm
Location: (Andel) The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by wolfwoman » Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:28 am

and what do you think, about this CsW-stud ??

Image
Image
http://www.vantaelsesluske.nl __ greetings Stefanie

User avatar
Vajente
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:02 am
Location: Buinerveen, The Netherlands

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Vajente » Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:33 am

caninesrock wrote:Oh. I found the pic on Wikipedia. It was either listed as Creative Commons license with permission to use or public domain. I don't remember which one. There were several Tamaskan pics on Wiki and some of them were public domain and others were Creative Commons. I didn't want to steal a picture of someone's Tamaskan without their permission so I got both my avatars from Wiki. ;) I didn't know this dog was Ravi's brother. I choose him as my avatar because I thought he was the most wolfy-looking dog of the Tamaskans featured on Wikimedia.
just compare your avatar to mine(Ravi) you will see the resemblance :D
Sylvaen wrote:Jackal's genes are already very well represented within the breed (worldwide) so it doesn't really make sense for Tarheel to import Ravi's sperm, when there are other Jackal offspring already available in America (Zephyr, etc)... much healthier to use fresh stud dogs instead!! (Diesel, Sampo, Xantho, Ayasca, etc etc etc) - or look for suitable outcrosses.
you're right about the Jackal part but Ravi's mother would be new to the US

User avatar
Tana
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:29 am
Location: Slovenia

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Tana » Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:07 pm

Sylvaen wrote:Although the TDR Committee voted and approved her use for an outcross mating, the Tamaskan Germany club posted this notice on their website:
Can someone translate this notice? Thank you.

balto13
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:40 am

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by balto13 » Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:25 pm

Sylvaen wrote:Jackal's genes are already very well represented within the breed (worldwide) so it doesn't really make sense for Tarheel to import Ravi's sperm, when there are other Jackal offspring already available in America (Zephyr, etc)... much healthier to use fresh stud dogs instead!! (Diesel, Sampo, Xantho, Ayasca, etc etc etc) - or look for suitable outcrosses.
I don't know if many other breeders will be lucky enough to find other outcrosses like the hedlunds, or will want to add more hedlund husky, but I would like to see some of those studs be used before they are taken off the market :)

User avatar
HiTenshi16
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 4802
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 7:11 pm
Location: Princeton, TX US
Contact:

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by HiTenshi16 » Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:41 pm

Tana wrote:
Sylvaen wrote:Although the TDR Committee voted and approved her use for an outcross mating, the Tamaskan Germany club posted this notice on their website:
Can someone translate this notice? Thank you.
Opinion between TWH and Tamaskan

We Tamaskan Club of Germany condemn the mating between Tamaskan and TWH. This pairing comes from the ranks of the Netherlands and we have nothing to do with it. We distance ourselves from this project. The announcement of this combination has been published without our knowledge. We consider the project for simply inconsiderate and not conducive to the future of our race the Tamaskan

Regards Tamaskan Club Germany
Image

User avatar
Tana
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:29 am
Location: Slovenia

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Tana » Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:20 pm

Thanks HiTenshi :) Ok, so they are/were against. But why, if they already have dogs from Sarloos (Bobbi) and Marxdorfer wolfhund? Why is Sarloos or Marxdorfer better choice for outcross then CSW? Because of health, character( I do not think, it is such a difference between Sarloos an CSW, after all, are both from GSD and wolf)? Maybe because of the common ancestors, if we look at the Oskari? Marxdorfer probably is more like shepherd, because of white shepherd behinde it (character). But what about health?

User avatar
wolfwoman
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Posts: 480
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:55 pm
Location: (Andel) The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by wolfwoman » Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:56 pm

Tana wrote:Thanks HiTenshi :) Ok, so they are/were against. But why, if they already have dogs from Sarloos (Bobbi) and Marxdorfer wolfhund? Why is Sarloos or Marxdorfer better choice for outcross then CSW? Because of health, character( I do not think, it is such a difference between Sarloos an CSW, after all, are both from GSD and wolf)? Maybe because of the common ancestors, if we look at the Oskari? Marxdorfer probably is more like shepherd, because of white shepherd behinde it (character). But what about health?

I think most opponents, have a very wrong impression of the character of the Czechoslovak Wolfdog.

But just like any other breed, you can not judge all dogs alike
Image
http://www.vantaelsesluske.nl __ greetings Stefanie

User avatar
Tiantai
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 2558
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:16 pm
Location: Canada (North York, Ontario)

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Tiantai » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:22 am

I question if Kaylee's infertility was due to a seasonal breeding cycle from that small wolf-content in the breed. I mean I am aware that pure wolves do exist in that breed's genepool from a few decades ago and much more recent than in the Saarloos breed. The attempt to breed Avak and Ziva some time later on also failed but this is suspected by some to be due to the pair's part-Saarloos heritage and many are hoping to see puppies from them once bred again in the future.
Image

User avatar
arianwenarie
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1244
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 5:07 pm
Location: USA

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by arianwenarie » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:53 am

Hrm...not sure about that Lucas, but it does bring up another question out of curiosity from me: is there a fertility test for bitches? Image

User avatar
Tiantai
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 2558
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:16 pm
Location: Canada (North York, Ontario)

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Tiantai » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:00 am

arianwenarie wrote:Hrm...not sure about that Lucas, but it does bring up another question out of curiosity from me: is there a fertility test for bitches? Image
There are Progesterone Testings which is performed by many vets worldwide.
Image

User avatar
Katlin
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 2739
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:48 am
Location: Calgary, AB
Contact:

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Katlin » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:12 am

Tiantai wrote:
arianwenarie wrote:Hrm...not sure about that Lucas, but it does bring up another question out of curiosity from me: is there a fertility test for bitches? Image
There are Progesterone Testings which is performed by many vets worldwide.
Two different things. There is no long term fertility test for dogs right now.
Polarose Tamaskan
Polardog Outfitters
Owner of Sierra Kaweah RN RI TDI TRN TTDN CRN-MCL @ Polarose

User avatar
arianwenarie
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1244
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 5:07 pm
Location: USA

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by arianwenarie » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:29 am

Tiantai wrote:
arianwenarie wrote:Hrm...not sure about that Lucas, but it does bring up another question out of curiosity from me: is there a fertility test for bitches? Image
There are Progesterone Testings which is performed by many vets worldwide.
From my understanding, progesterone testing tells you the level of the progesterone hormone that the bitch is producing and when it spikes is when she ovulates. However, is it possible for her to have that progesterone level spike and yet, for some reason, her eggs are not fertile?

Hell, I think I'm very confused right now...lol. I don't even understand human female fertility. XD

User avatar
Sylvaen
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 5206
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 3:53 pm
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Sylvaen » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:16 pm

arianwenarie wrote:From my understanding, progesterone testing tells you the level of the progesterone hormone that the bitch is producing and when it spikes is when she ovulates. However, is it possible for her to have that progesterone level spike and yet, for some reason, her eggs are not fertile?
There are many potential factors and possible reasons as to why a bitch might not be fertile...
- perhaps she does not produce any eggs (problems with ovary function)
- perhaps she produces eggs, but they are not viable
- perhaps there are problems with the uterine lining, meaning the fertilized eggs cannot properly implant
- perhaps she does not produce enough hormones (progesterone) to maintain pregnancy once the eggs have implanted, resulting in a natural spontaneous abortion (miscarriage)

Unfortunately, testing is very expensive and doesn't always provide conclusive results. However, even if the exact cause can be pinpointed (and possibly treated) considering the fact that the condition may be genetic (inheritable) it would probably be best if that particular female was not bred, even if she could produce a litter - otherwise the same problem could appear in future generations. With small genepools it is not uncommon for these fertility issues to crop up (cryptorchidism, etc).
Image
The future lies before you, like a path of pure white snow...
Be careful how you tread it, for every step will show.

weylyn

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by weylyn » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:54 pm

Tana wrote:Thanks HiTenshi :) Ok, so they are/were against. But why, if they already have dogs from Sarloos (Bobbi) and Marxdorfer wolfhund? Why is Sarloos or Marxdorfer better choice for outcross then CSW? Because of health, character( I do not think, it is such a difference between Sarloos an CSW, after all, are both from GSD and wolf)? Maybe because of the common ancestors, if we look at the Oskari? Marxdorfer probably is more like shepherd, because of white shepherd behinde it (character). But what about health?
eeeehm as both owner and knower there are way lot of difference between an Saarloos or an CSW in character sorry to say this. Don't forget in this that different under species of wolf were used
BUT I have also nothing against using the CSW as an outcross but would not do it on a dog that is only like 2 or 3 generations away from direct offspring of Oskari and yes I say this for the character because I love the CSW don't get me wrong in this but they are spicy especially the females :) But as I understand that is not the case here so.....don't see the problem.

User avatar
Tana
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:29 am
Location: Slovenia

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Tana » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:10 pm

Yes, I know,that different under species of wolf were used. I am not an expert for Sarloos and CSW. I would like to learn more :!: What are the main differences according to your experiences?
weylyn wrote:they are spicy especially the females :)


Hehe, I believe you, one very spicy girl lives nearby :lol:

User avatar
Tiantai
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 2558
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:16 pm
Location: Canada (North York, Ontario)

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Tiantai » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:29 am

By under species, do you mean "subspecies"?
Image

weylyn

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by weylyn » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:48 am

Tiantai wrote:By under species, do you mean "subspecies"?
Yes Lucas ;) Me as a not native english person just gave the direct translation of "onder soort" ;)

User avatar
Sylvaen
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 5206
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 3:53 pm
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Re: All the tamaskans of the forum and even more (comments h

Post by Sylvaen » Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:20 pm

Sylvaen wrote:
arianwenarie wrote:From my understanding, progesterone testing tells you the level of the progesterone hormone that the bitch is producing and when it spikes is when she ovulates. However, is it possible for her to have that progesterone level spike and yet, for some reason, her eggs are not fertile?
There are many potential factors and possible reasons as to why a bitch might not be fertile...
- perhaps she does not produce any eggs (problems with ovary function)
- perhaps she produces eggs, but they are not viable
- perhaps there are problems with the uterine lining, meaning the fertilized eggs cannot properly implant
- perhaps she does not produce enough hormones (progesterone) to maintain pregnancy once the eggs have implanted, resulting in a natural spontaneous abortion (miscarriage)

Unfortunately, testing is very expensive and doesn't always provide conclusive results. However, even if the exact cause can be pinpointed (and possibly treated) considering the fact that the condition may be genetic (inheritable) it would probably be best if that particular female was not bred, even if she could produce a litter - otherwise the same problem could appear in future generations. With small genepools it is not uncommon for these fertility issues to crop up (cryptorchidism, etc).
More info about canine infertility and reproductive diseases here:
viewtopic.php?f=65&t=4425
Image
The future lies before you, like a path of pure white snow...
Be careful how you tread it, for every step will show.

Post Reply