School for Training

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Hiwatari
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School for Training

Post by Hiwatari » Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:02 pm

I just thought this maybe a good place to ask about things. So I'm just wondering what everyone thinks about this dog training school.

http://www.customcanineunlimited.com/

I'm thinking of attending to become a dog trainer as they are one of the few schools willing to take the GI Bill. They also offer everything I want to do. Therefore I may only be seeing the good side and would like others to find the bad for me.

Thanks,

Joy Clemens

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Re: School for Training

Post by Sylvaen » Sun May 01, 2011 4:26 pm

looks good on the surface, professional site... but... not much actual info about HOW they train (what methods they use) - electric collars, etc?

couple of warning bells:
- their 'broker' page (anything to do with broker / wholesale puppy purchases and sales, from unknown kennels / breeders, is a big red flag) http://www.customcanineunlimited.com/se ... rvice.html
- their warranty specifies "2 Years on all Genetic Defects" and "1 Year on Mental Stability" - that 1 year on mental stability statement, in particular, is worrying... and why would it be a LESSOR period than genetic diseases, unless it is common for their dogs to just 'snap' after a while, which really makes me question their training methods... http://www.customcanineunlimited.com/re ... ranty.html
- "We are only able to offer these dogs for sale due to our contacts in Europe that give us exclusive access to their personal breeders and chosen stock." http://www.customcanineunlimited.com/dogs-for-sale.html (very suspicious, no kennel names, not even countries! what's stopping them from breeding local mutts and just saying they are 'rare European quality dogs bla bla'? I am super skeptical these days and when I see generic statements like that, I start wondering about whether it is really the truth or not. it also means, they could be dealing with VERY shady puppy farms here in Europe, that mass produce pups at a super low cost (like in Spain or Eastern Europe - horrible conditions) then ship the pups over to America and sell them for ton of cash as something 'special' just because they come from Europe.... I wouldn't buy a pup without knowing WHERE exactly it was coming from and a website that sells such pups is ringing alarm bells with me... there's just too much room for exploitation (at the dog's expense). all their for sale dogs look a bit too skinny for my liking, no info about any health testing whatsoever, or pedigree, etc.

ultimately though, you can only draw conclusions from looking at the website... the best idea would be to schedule a visit to go check the place out for yourself - and trust your instincts.
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Re: School for Training

Post by Hiwatari » Sun May 01, 2011 7:41 pm

Thanks.

I'm planning to check the place out. I didn't really look at their dogs for sale or anything as I'm only planning to attend to become a trainer. But now I'm looking. When in person I'll know more. Thanks again.

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Re: School for Training

Post by Sylvaen » Sun May 01, 2011 7:59 pm

No problem :)
Yeah I just had a quick look around and those were the red flags for me - they might be a great training school but their dog sales side seems lacking, which makes me question the whole operation. BUT, definitely go see for yourself... maybe they have all the correct info about health tests / pedigrees, etc and they just don't want to post it online. *shrug*
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Re: School for Training

Post by Hiwatari » Mon May 02, 2011 4:39 pm

The school is being checked by their state on the 11th to make sure they meet standards for letting people us their GI bill there. So I'll be finding out soon enough if I can attend the school.

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Re: School for Training

Post by kendrrat » Fri May 20, 2011 12:10 am

just saw this thread and was wondering- whats the update? hear anything from the state check?

and i thought id just mention my two bits- i only looked at the site for a minute or two and only at the training parts. but what i noticed is that they keep saying something like "we do what it takes to train each dog, dont train by numbers" which makes sense i guess but they dont mention anything about POSITIVE reinforcement or anything like that, so it almost started to sound to me like when they said "we do what it takes" they mean they will resort to some training methods that i woundlt necessarily approve of. however this is simply an impression i got from a minute of browsing and only because i saw a lack of anything positive rather than a presence of negative. me advice also would be to check it out yourself, maybe ask to hang out and watch some training sessions both with the owner present and absent, really see what it is that they do and make sure that the training beliefs they follow are ones you agree with ;)

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Re: School for Training

Post by Hiwatari » Fri May 20, 2011 1:50 am

I haven't heard back from them yet. So I'm going to guess it didn't go well. However once I'm done the school I'm in right now. I've been asked to come to this school.
Detectiondogs.com
Their an invite only school. They also looked over the other schools page and didn't like to many things. Like the only person with info is a decoy, no trainer info on the page. It's most of what I'm looking for. Everything else I can just study up on my own.

So if anyone has another out look on this school. Let me know. Nothing is put in stone yet about going to it.

Thanks to everyone helping out.

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Re: School for Training

Post by kendrrat » Fri May 20, 2011 10:06 am

again, i only checked it out for a minute or so, but this place looks top notch as far as their accomplishments go

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Re: School for Training

Post by Hiwatari » Fri May 20, 2011 3:14 pm

Yes they look much better then the last one to me as well. Their also not trying to push me to start soon. The other wanted me to do online if I couldn't go in person. They only want in person. So I'm crossing my fingers and hoping they still want me when I'm done this school (UTI).

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Re: School for Training

Post by Hawthorne » Wed May 25, 2011 10:26 pm

What are all the certifications in the US that trainers can have? (there are always letters after the people's names in Petco & Petsmart who are the dog trainers there). There must be accreditations, then, from those certifying bodies. I think that'd be a place to start--however I've never taken our dogs to pet stores for dog training. We had a very good private trainer at a locally owned dog supply shop. We'll miss her... moving stinks in some ways.
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Re: School for Training

Post by Hiwatari » Thu May 26, 2011 2:51 am

I've had Kai and Akira in puppy classes at Petsmart with their buddy Ula. They didn't learn anything I didn't already teach them. But that isn't the kind of class I'm going to. I'm going to a school to train me to be a dog trainer for K-9's. That's why I'm looking for a good school and want others out look on the school before I go to it.

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Re: School for Training

Post by Hawthorne » Thu May 26, 2011 3:18 am

I understand what your looking for. The folks that train dogs at Petsmart / Petco usually have some type of certification. There's a whole bunch--all are abbreviations. Whatever those certifications are--there must be a certifying body who has some kind of standard. Hopefully, at least one of those certifications is reviewed independently rather than internally. That'd be the course I'd look into...
I know there's some kind of umbrella organization...like American Dog Trainers blah blah blah... I just don't know what it is...
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bark as if no one can hear you
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lick like there's no end to kissing
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sit by the fire with friends
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Re: School for Training

Post by Hiwatari » Thu May 26, 2011 4:47 am

Alright. I'll look more into that. So far all the school's I've look at are like a collage were you get tested on what you've learned and then get the pass or fail before moving on. Then at the end you get the certificate for the classes you did.

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Re: School for Training

Post by Hawthorne » Thu May 26, 2011 10:00 pm

Okay, here's one: Certification Council for Professional Dog Trainers: http://www.ccpdt.org/
I don't know what their program is like--but it's a place to start. You'd get CCPDT letters after your name when you pass their course :)
Tracy Graziano
http://www.hawthornetamaskan.com

bark as if no one can hear you
catch the ball on the fly
lick like there's no end to kissing
sleep on a sofa nearby
jump like the sky is the limit
sit by the fire with friends
stay with the ones who love you
run like the road never ends

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Re: School for Training

Post by blufawn » Fri May 27, 2011 10:42 am

I think training schools are a bit of a waste of space, I have been to tonnes of dog training club in my life and all the instructors have had some qualification that means squat, I only found two that I would ever consider returning to.
Find a dog training club that does competitive obedience or working trials and then compete with your dog, you may not get letters after your name but you'll know a hell of a lot more than the people who took a two week course.
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Re: School for Training

Post by Hiwatari » Fri May 27, 2011 11:18 am

I agree with that, but when training K-9 working dogs at lest around me. They want to know you know what your doing. So if someone trains you that is known for good K-9 dogs. Then their more likely to pick you. The military only gets dogs from a few people and I want to train dogs for the military.

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Re: School for Training

Post by Blustag » Sat May 28, 2011 3:45 pm

Really you only need to find someone who competes in obedience or working trials as Jenny says. That way you will get good instruction. If they dont compete themselves then I would give them a miss. I speak from experience as I used to compete very competitively for years and also take class lessons and individual private lessons. Far too many schools have inexperienced teachers but remember that they are all only volunteers and 'not' paid. Someone with the experience needed to teach will be spending a lot of time with their own dogs but certainly worth searching for ;)

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Re: School for Training

Post by JulieSmith » Sun May 29, 2011 12:45 am

Hiwatari wrote:I agree with that, but when training K-9 working dogs at lest around me. They want to know you know what your doing. So if someone trains you that is known for good K-9 dogs. Then their more likely to pick you. The military only gets dogs from a few people and I want to train dogs for the military.
The best thing is ask the military what qualifications they look for in a trainer then find who does that qualification. There is no point doing a course if they do not recognise that qualification. You could also see if you can find who they do get their dogs from and see what qualifications they have, or if you can work for them to be able to learn, before starting up on your own, that way you will have built up contacts within the military and a record of your training abilities, rather than contacting them on your own with possibly lots of other hopeful trainers trying to get their attention. If they only get dogs from a few people then it will be hard to get them to look at you unless you have experience and a track record of training.

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Re: School for Training

Post by Blustag » Sun May 29, 2011 11:56 am

I would avoid training with any Police, ex Police or Military as their way of training just wouldnt suit our breed. I have worked with the Police training dogs way back with my German Shepherds and know ex Police officers now training dogs and I certainly wouldnt recommend them as their methods are way too tough for our dogs ;)

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Re: School for Training

Post by Hiwatari » Sun May 29, 2011 11:28 pm

I have looked into what is needed for them. Training by someone who does sell to the military is always best. I also need paper work and if I'm lucky the first dog to go to them would be a CPT needing to blow extra money to keep their given amount each year the same or more. It's then that I can maybe start. But I do see the hurt in seeing and training all different ways to find what is best for me.

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Re: School for Training

Post by Blustag » Mon May 30, 2011 4:32 pm

Sorry I totally disagree with you here. This breed does not need or want anyone who is military minded training them. Army/Police or otherwise.

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Re: School for Training

Post by claireyclaire » Mon May 30, 2011 4:43 pm

Blustag wrote:I would avoid training with any Police, ex Police or Military as their way of training just wouldnt suit our breed. I have worked with the Police training dogs way back with my German Shepherds and know ex Police officers now training dogs and I certainly wouldnt recommend them as their methods are way too tough for our dogs ;)
I totally agree with Lynn, this breed responds very well to positive reinforcement training. They are very sensitive and any aggressive or negative methods would be too much for them.

I have only ever once raised my voice to my dogs and it was not intentional, Elska was following me down the stairs and nearly tripped me up, I yelled NO (just once) as I thought I was going to fall down the stairs, she got to the bottom of the stairs, immediately rolled onto her back and whined, she then crawled to me on her belly. I have never felt so awful in all my life, she was wary of me for 3 days, I would never wish that on any dog or the feeling of guilt that I had on any Tamaskan owner, these dogs love you and trust you with their lives. Please never betray that trust.
Hiwatari wrote:But I do see the hurt in seeing and training all different ways to find what is best for me.
I may have mis-understood what you are saying, but it concerns me hugely that you talk about 'what is best for me' and not what is best for the dog?
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Re: School for Training

Post by Sylvaen » Mon May 30, 2011 4:57 pm

I also think that the Tamaskan breed is too 'soft' for the line of work required by police / military forces. They are definitely NOT 'protection' / 'attack' dogs... though they could be used as 'sniffer' dogs by the ATF (ie: explosives & narcotics detection). The Czech Wolfdog would be more suited to police / military work (as they have a much 'harder' temperament due to high GSD content) but mostly they use purebred German Shepherds or Belgian Malinois etc. Labradors are mostly used by the ATF (at airport customs, etc) as they are not an 'intimidating' breed for the general public (unlike a dog that looks like a wolf!!) - I really don't think that the Tamaskan would be suited to that line of work at all... they just don't have it in them (heritage-wise)... harness them to a sled, however, and you'll see that they are born to pull. With any top-level training, it's important to work WITH the dogs and their skills / breed traits - I'm not saying that a Chihuahua (for instance) couldn't be a military dog... just that there are other more suitable breeds out there!

However, I *think* Joy was mentioning that SHE wanted to undergo the training, so that she is qualified / certified... BUT I'm not sure if it'll be of any use for her breeding program, considering the bloodlines at hand. The Anglo Wolfdog, being a GSD mix, might be better suited to it but the addition of 'Tamaskan Wolfdog' would only dilute those defensive / offensive traits - though lord knows what RPK is mixing into his bloodlines (I bet even he doesn't really know) so it's hard to say. I can state, however, that purebred (REAL) Tamaskan Dogs are MUCH better suited to training as therapy dogs or Search & Rescue.
claireyclaire wrote:I may have mis-understood what you are saying, but it concerns me hugely that you talk about 'what is best for me' and not what is best for the dog?
or the BREED!!

We definitely don't want people seeing our breed as 'macho' (tough fighting / protection dogs) and having them end up like the Pit Bull... in the wrong hands (thugs and gangs, etc)... which is what will happen if people see Tamaskan Dogs in the role of military or police forces. However, I wouldn't worry too much as, even with intensive training, the German Shepherd and Belgian Malinois are still much better suited and I doubt any Tamaskan could pass the strict entrance exam as they simply don't have the drive and focus for that line of work (which is a good thing).

I don't really see the point in trying to 'mould' the breed into something it's not... but, rather, working with the breed characteristics to find the appropriate niche at which it would excel. Joy, have you thought about undergoing training certification for Search & Rescue or therapy dog qualification? That would do a lot to promote the breed, while also working WITH its inherent traits AND it could help to save and enhance many lives too: finding missing people in the mountains / avalanche / earthquakes etc... or assisting the elderly / disabled / blind / handicapped etc.
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Re: School for Training

Post by Hiwatari » Mon May 30, 2011 6:10 pm

I guess I forgot to say that I'm planning to get Czech Wolfdogs for this. The only Tamaskan kind I'm going to train for anything like this is Akira for personal protection/watch dog. Kai is going to be trained for drug sniffing, Rin is working on Therapy training, and I'm not sure for Omi yet. I plan to do all kinds of training not just K-9 working dogs. I believe that I started all of this to see if someone else could find problems with schools I'm think of before I go. So yes it's about me not the dogs or breed, as I'm going to be the one in school. Not the dog. I have to work with a dog they give me to train as I'm learning.

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Re: School for Training

Post by blufawn » Tue May 31, 2011 11:02 am

I think you may have bitten off more than you can chew.
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
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And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

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Re: School for Training

Post by Hiwatari » Tue May 31, 2011 1:38 pm

I would much rather bite off more then go hungry.

Akira is already a good watch dog without training, anything within two blocks we know about. Rin is on her way as she already goes to old people homes to see them and make them happy and she is also part time greeter at a store. Kai has to wait for training as I can't just walk around put drugs in places without my own training.

If I'm not busy, then I'm bored. I try not to be bored. So when I'm not in school I spend every moment I can with the dogs. Like right now we're all laying together in bed. But I have to get out of bed and ready to take them out on a walk.

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Re: School for Training

Post by Hawthorne » Tue May 31, 2011 10:16 pm

blufawn wrote:I think training schools are a bit of a waste of space, I have been to tonnes of dog training club in my life and all the instructors have had some qualification that means squat, I only found two that I would ever consider returning to.
Find a dog training club that does competitive obedience or working trials and then compete with your dog, you may not get letters after your name but you'll know a hell of a lot more than the people who took a two week course.
Jennie, now that you say that I do agree--

When we took our first dog into Petco a couple of years ago the first thing the trainer did was pinch his ear. It really pissed me off. He was just a young puppy (10 weeks maybe). Some nerve--just to waltz up to us ask if she could say hello then only to pinch his ear. I was convinced to never take my dogs to Petco for dog training. I guess that's what I meant about "not knowing about the certifications"... :roll:

I learned 10x more from a book than I did from our class....though the socialization part is very valuable.
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bark as if no one can hear you
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Re: School for Training

Post by TerriHolt » Tue May 31, 2011 11:06 pm

Hiwatari wrote:I would much rather bite off more then go hungry.
if one bites off too much, he is known as a glutten... and may choke (my grans wise words about something to do with eyes, big and belly).

i also don't like the rep, police dogs have given the GSD's. the tams would be tared with the same brush and... voila, another dog to be feared (to add to the growing list of many :roll: ).
I'm planning to get Czech Wolfdogs for this
,

i thought you was planning on breeding tams (i hope not with the Czech you're getting)? wow... you're doing a lot. i hope your dogs can keep up with you.
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Re: School for Training

Post by Hiwatari » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:12 am

i also don't like the rep, police dogs have given the GSD's. the tams would be tared with the same brush and... voila, another dog to be feared (to add to the growing list of many :roll: ).
I'm not planning to use the Tam as police dogs. Again only Akira is going to have any bite type of work and that is only doe around the house or when out driving.
i thought you was planning on breeding tams (i hope not with the Czech you're getting)? wow... you're doing a lot. i hope your dogs can keep up with you.
I do plan to breed tams. But not with the Czech, I've said before when I firs planned to get one that it would be a stud for other Czech only and if I ended up liking the breed I may think about breeding them.

And yes my dogs seem to keep up with me just fine right now and love it. If we're not out doing things. I'm at school or bring home temp friends for them from shelters.

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Re: School for Training

Post by Sylvaen » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:16 pm

Just saw this video... shocking and sad :(
It just goes to show that nice facilities and/or a flashy website doesn't always mean good care! :evil:

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Re: School for Training

Post by JulieSmith » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:45 pm

That is just too sad, it made me feel sick watching it.

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Re: School for Training

Post by Nino » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:52 pm

thats horrible!
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Re: School for Training

Post by AZDehlin » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:07 am

That is horrific :cry:

Does anybody know if HB 70 "Nitro's Law" got passed?

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Re: School for Training

Post by TerriHolt » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:01 am

i saw something about this facebook ( http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=31258564073 ) a few months back, someone trying to get justice and the law passed for her rottie and others. i think it's just as sick, twisted and, just plain horrrific as i did then and the law sucks where ever you live.
Image

There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Hiwatari
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Re: School for Training

Post by Hiwatari » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:26 am

That is ungodly sad. I don't even have words for that... I can't stand to see a gold fish die without crying my eyes out. Just wow, he should have gotten a lot more for that.

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wicca1
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Re: School for Training

Post by wicca1 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:28 pm

dont think i can stand to look at that video, just looking at everyones comments is enough :( .

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Isabel
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Re: School for Training

Post by Isabel » Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:47 pm

I can't see the video too :cry:
Si envenenas y contaminas la tierra y a sus criaturas,con ello tambien te envenenas a ti,a tus hijos y a los hijos de tus hijos.

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