Anesthesia risk?

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susann
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Anesthesia risk?

Post by susann » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:39 pm

I have read everywhere now that wolfdogs (or any dogs with wolf in them) have less chance of surviving anesthetic and narcosis. Was thinking of when x-ray of hips etc. Anyone heard of this and what do your vet give instead of?

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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by Nino » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:41 pm

The thing I made sure was that we weighed the dog beforehand so that the anesthetic was correctly dosed since you can easily think that such a big dog is much heavier than they are because of eg. coat, which means that some vets does give too much anesthetics and that could end up taking the life of the dog/wolfdog.

I put Sølve under full anesthetics, which she managed fine, as I said above I made sure that the Vet and I weighed beforehand and that they knew that there was some people saying that complications could arise so they were prepared should anything happen.. She did fine, both waking up and falling asleep (I stayed the entire time) but did take the rest of the day to get back to her old self (which I totally understand since it makes me sick too).. I don't know if this helps or you can use it at all though
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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by MelB » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:17 pm

We also weighed Cindy before she was anaesthetised. However the vet did say that Cindy just "drank" anaesthetic. She was trying to keep it light but had to keep topping it up all the time.
No ill effects afterwards apart from what can be expected - bit of drowsiness & out of sorts for a few hours after we got her home.

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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by Hawthorne » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:29 pm

Some very experienced vets can do hip xrays without putting your dog under.
Our vet also did a very light anesthetic for Darwin. I also told her that our breed is sensitive to being put under. They also weighed him right before the procedure.
However, Darwin is of English lines and is not a dog with CSV. Same for Freyja.
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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by TerriHolt » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:30 pm

Nino wrote:The thing I made sure was that we weighed the dog beforehand so that the anesthetic was correctly dosed since you can easily think that such a big dog is much heavier than they are because of eg. coat, which means that some vets does give too much anesthetics and that could end up taking the life of the dog/wolfdog.
Ooh, i never thought of doing that... My vet just administers it and i just guessed they knew what they were doing :oops: Thanks, i'll keep that in mind :D
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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by Rahne » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:59 pm

My Tams have never been under anesthetic so no idea how they will respond. There are vets in the Netherlands who will do X-rays without anesthetic and sedation. Konah was given nothing and was fully awake when her hips and elbows were done.

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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by Nino » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:13 pm

My vet would have done it without anesthetics, but I knew that Sølve wouldn't take to that nicely.. she would have been stressed out as hell and the money on xrays wasted probably..
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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by susann » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:32 pm

Found this:

Wolf Hybrids are very sensitive to medication, especially to anesthesia and anesthesia. You may only use drugs specifically designed for sensitive dogs, otherwise it may happen that the dies during anesthesia.

Nova did ok, thank God, I didn't know this then... but now I am worried about Maccon :?

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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by Hawthorne » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:50 pm

From what I understand, they are sensitive to vaccines, too, specifically the rabies vaccine. Anyone know more info on this?
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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by susann » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:42 pm

Hawthorne wrote:From what I understand, they are sensitive to vaccines, too, specifically the rabies vaccine. Anyone know more info on this?
Rabies too..? this was new to me... both Nova and Maccon are vaccinated against rabies.

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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by Nino » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:18 pm

Hawthorne wrote:From what I understand, they are sensitive to vaccines, too, specifically the rabies vaccine. Anyone know more info on this?
I just got the impression that it was a myth, making it easier to keep down the wolfdog population.. but I could be wrong
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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by susann » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:28 pm

Nino wrote:
Hawthorne wrote:From what I understand, they are sensitive to vaccines, too, specifically the rabies vaccine. Anyone know more info on this?
I just got the impression that it was a myth, making it easier to keep down the wolfdog population.. but I could be wrong
Maybe.. but I don't think so.. you don't have to vaccinate against rabies if you don't want to...if you know you're not leaving your country. And you don't have to xray your wolfdogs.. it's up to you. So I don't really see how this could keep down anything.

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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by Sylvaen » Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:51 am

susann wrote:
Nino wrote:
Hawthorne wrote:From what I understand, they are sensitive to vaccines, too, specifically the rabies vaccine. Anyone know more info on this?
I just got the impression that it was a myth, making it easier to keep down the wolfdog population.. but I could be wrong
Maybe.. but I don't think so.. you don't have to vaccinate against rabies if you don't want to...if you know you're not leaving your country.
Here in Croatia, you MUST vaccinate your dogs for rabies EVERY YEAR (even if you don't leave the country) - if a dog that is not currently vaccinated for rabies (within the last 12 months) bites someone, it is at risk for being euthanized (to have its brain tested for rabies). It's just not worth the risk so I always vaccinate my dogs (of course, I travel a lot with them too... so it just has to be done anyway).
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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by Nino » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:47 pm

Sweden is not at risk when talking about Rabies (that's why it have been easier to import from Sweden).. Denmark is a bit more, but I can't even remember the last time rabies was an issue here.. but in countries like Germany, or US there is much higher risk of Rabies, and therefore they when someone is bitten often will euthinize the dog/wolfdog/wolf when it bites - if it hasn't been rabies vaccinated.
And since they said that the vaccination didn't work on wolves and wolfdogs then it made it much easier to just put them down when they bit.. that's what I mean by controlling the numbers..
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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by Hawthorne » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:35 pm

USDA Contributes to a Possible Rabies Epidemic:

According to the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) there are between 1.5 and 2.5 million wolfdogs in this country and 250,000 born every year. These dogs already exist through out the United States. For USDA to ignore this fact does not change it. For them to attempt to withhold rabies vaccination for a certain group of dogs is a violation of their trust to protect public health. This willful attempt would create a massive reservoir of vaccine-approved canines that are susceptible to rabies and which are in daily contact with humans. This is NOT in the best interest of public health.

If the USDA continues to refuse the verified scientific evidence it now has which proves the efficacy of the vaccines and medications in wolves, wolfdogs and all other canines and yet denies this information, it may well leave itself open to legal action in the future.

In addition, the USDA may not wish the public to own this type of dog. However, such a decision is the right of individuals, municipalities and states. It is not within the authority or the trust given to the USDA to attempt to dictate through such unconstitutional means.
from: http://www.wolfdogalliance.org/legislat ... ml#history

http://www.wolfdogproject.com/rabies.htm

Looks like this is political in nature (what else is new?) I just remember a wildlife vet telling me that the rabies vaccine will sever the spinal cord in a wolf. Yikes! That was some time ago, though.
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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by Nino » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:34 pm

Hawthorne wrote:
USDA Contributes to a Possible Rabies Epidemic:

According to the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) there are between 1.5 and 2.5 million wolfdogs in this country and 250,000 born every year. These dogs already exist through out the United States. For USDA to ignore this fact does not change it. For them to attempt to withhold rabies vaccination for a certain group of dogs is a violation of their trust to protect public health. This willful attempt would create a massive reservoir of vaccine-approved canines that are susceptible to rabies and which are in daily contact with humans. This is NOT in the best interest of public health.

If the USDA continues to refuse the verified scientific evidence it now has which proves the efficacy of the vaccines and medications in wolves, wolfdogs and all other canines and yet denies this information, it may well leave itself open to legal action in the future.

In addition, the USDA may not wish the public to own this type of dog. However, such a decision is the right of individuals, municipalities and states. It is not within the authority or the trust given to the USDA to attempt to dictate through such unconstitutional means.
from: http://www.wolfdogalliance.org/legislat ... ml#history

http://www.wolfdogproject.com/rabies.htm

Looks like this is political in nature (what else is new?) I just remember a wildlife vet telling me that the rabies vaccine will sever the spinal cord in a wolf. Yikes! That was some time ago, though.
That's exactly what I meant!
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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by Hawthorne » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:42 pm

I wonder how much of the anesthesia risk has to do with the type of anesthesia used. I know the "cocktail" used for humans has changed recently--there is much less risk involved. I would guess that this would also be true for pets. Just thinking out loud.
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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by SEO » Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:03 pm

Hello everybody,
As for the CWD, we, owners, know they are very "risky breed" in case of anesthesia. So, we ask for "gas anasthesia protocol". Only a few vets here know about that. So, this could be a good knowledge for some Tamaskans ? (sorry for my poor english then, I'm really tired).

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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by susann » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:30 pm

Nino wrote:Sweden is not at risk when talking about Rabies (that's why it have been easier to import from Sweden).. Denmark is a bit more, but I can't even remember the last time rabies was an issue here.. but in countries like Germany, or US there is much higher risk of Rabies, and therefore they when someone is bitten often will euthinize the dog/wolfdog/wolf when it bites - if it hasn't been rabies vaccinated.
And since they said that the vaccination didn't work on wolves and wolfdogs then it made it much easier to just put them down when they bit.. that's what I mean by controlling the numbers..
Yes ofcourse....different rules in different countries. I was talking about wolfdogs in Sweden. We don't need rabies vaccinations if you're staying in the country...or for travelling between Sweden and Norway.

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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by Ryphen » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:49 pm

Hawthorne wrote:I wonder how much of the anesthesia risk has to do with the type of anesthesia used. I know the "cocktail" used for humans has changed recently--there is much less risk involved. I would guess that this would also be true for pets. Just thinking out loud.
I'd be willing to bet it's this. Certain animals just don't respond well to certain anesthetics. I wish I could remember which drug it was that goats were really susceptible to. If you dosed them the same way you would a cow (adjusting for body weight of course), you'd kill them. Even breeds can have differences among them, like the way collies are really sensitive to ivermectin.

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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by AZDehlin » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:25 am

Ryphen wrote:
I'd be willing to bet it's this. Certain animals just don't respond well to certain anesthetics. I wish I could remember which drug it was that goats were really susceptible to. If you dosed them the same way you would a cow (adjusting for body weight of course), you'd kill them. Even breeds can have differences among them, like the way collies are really sensitive to ivermectin.

I was trying to remember what they were allergic too, when my Border Collie got mange when I was a kid... We had to get special medication because I believe it was ivermectin in some of the medication and dips.

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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by Tiantai » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:49 pm

I've never had to deal with this before but know a former OVC student who is a now vet and recall that they say dogs should always be weighed out before doing this procedure regardless how confident the vet or vet technicians may think they know how much the dog would need.

As of wolves and wolfdogs being at risk to this, I don't know because from my understanding some zoos have to deal with this all the time with the captive wolves living there and most of the time the wolves are fine after the procedure. This was true with some of the Arctic wolves in the Toronto Zoo.
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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by Katlin » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:00 am

If the vet doesn't weigh your dog before undergoing ANY kind of procedure, leave. Immediately. All drugs are dosed via weight, nothing less. Yes some dogs in the collie family can have reactions to the intervecmin.
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Re: Anesthesia risk?

Post by Czertice » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:54 am

I've heard that aenesthesia is risky with Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs, but all breeding dogs in Czech Rep. and Slovakia (and probably elsewhere) have to undergo it at least once (before breeding) for hip checks, therefore as much as I hate to say it, there is a kind of (un)natural selection in place.

Rabies vaccination is mandatory in Czech Rep. for all dogs.

A wolf breeder told me that sedation is extremely risky with wolves, they can have very unpredictable reactions to it.
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