Temperament and bloodlines and Golden litter discussion

All topics pertaining to the temperament / character of the Tamaskan Dog.
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Temperament and bloodlines and Golden litter discussion

Post by Gaby » Sun May 09, 2010 1:35 pm

Hello everyone,

We've almost made up our minds and want to be put on the waiting list for a Tamaskan. But I have some questions before we do and I hope somebody can answer these questions! We have a dog that's very aloof of strangers and is sometimes scared in new situations (he isn't properly socialized, we got him when he was 6 months old). When we do have to choose a Tamaskan pup, we would like a more easygoing pup. Not easygoing in exercise or activity (the dog will get a lot here and has to keep up :mrgreen: ), but easygoing in character. Like good with strangers, animals, children, etc. A happy dog with an open personality. I hope you can understand what I mean, I'm not that good in English. ;)

So, the question is, wich bloodlines are there today in the breed? Do we have to look for particular Tamaskan bloodlines when we surch for such a dog? I have the idea that all the Tamaskan are easygoing, but are there even subtile differences in the bloodlines? Are there typical behaviours among the Tamaskan dogs from different lines? For example, easier to train or needs a lot of exercise, things like that. A lot of questions, but I'm very curious. ;) Thank you very much!

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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by blufawn » Sun May 09, 2010 2:00 pm

There are some differences in intelligence but in general they are all easy going, however if you have a dog already who is aloof then a puppy may learn to be the same way from copying the older dog.

The most intelligent dogs I think are Jackal, Summer and Tumanra
Timba is also very smart (Summer puppy) but she is not being bred yet as too young.
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
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Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by Gaby » Sun May 09, 2010 2:24 pm

blufawn wrote:There are some differences in intelligence but in general they are all easy going, however if you have a dog already who is aloof then a puppy may learn to be the same way from copying the older dog.

The most intelligent dogs I think are Jackal, Summer and Tumanra
Timba is also very smart (Summer puppy) but she is not being bred yet as too young.
Thank you for your answer! That sounds good. ;)

We have met Jackals son, Kal-le, I thought he was a smart and stable dog, I liked hem very much. He also looks a lot like Jackal for what I've seen. Tumanra and Timba caught my eye because of their beautiful wolflike appearences. But all Tamaskan are beautiful to me.. :lol:

We know the dog could copy the behaviour of our dog. That's why we chose a breed thats completly different from the Catahoula. We plan to do a lot of things with them seperated. My dog is not feeling very comfortable at the dog school, so the pup will go with me when I'm working there, she will be proparly socialized. ;) We don't mind the dog to be a bit aloof, but not as much as the dog we already have.

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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by blufawn » Sun May 09, 2010 3:12 pm

It is a good idea to take a puppy out by themselves during the important socialisation months when you first get them home if you have a dog that is not very social.
But some Tamaskan owners have also found that their Tamaskan puppy encourage their older dogs to be more outgoing as well.

I forgot to mention Heidi who is also a very smart dog and very friendly as well.
Some of the Finnish dogs like Susi and Dingo produce dogs with lots of energy as they are designed as racing dogs, although they are not as smart they would be very good as agility dogs, the down side is they need extra exercise to keep them calm at home compared to the dogs that have less of the racing lines.

Which kennels are you looking at to buy from?
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
.............................................................
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by Gaby » Sun May 09, 2010 3:36 pm

blufawn wrote:It is a good idea to take a puppy out by themselves during the important socialisation months when you first get them home if you have a dog that is not very social.
But some Tamaskan owners have also found that their Tamaskan puppy encourage their older dogs to be more outgoing as well.

I forgot to mention Heidi who is also a very smart dog and very friendly as well.
Some of the Finnish dogs like Susi and Dingo produce dogs with lots of energy as they are designed as racing dogs, although they are not as smart they would be very good as agility dogs, the down side is they need extra exercise to keep them calm at home compared to the dogs that have less of the racing lines.

Which kennels are you looking at to buy from?
We have to exercise our dog very much as well, we walk or go biking two hours a day + a lot of mental exercise, because he's very intelligent. It's very important for me to walk offleash with my dogs and that they are obedient enough to do that, I think I have to look for the other lines than the dogs that are designed as racing dogs. I've had contact and a screening with Lynn and I like her dogs in character (as far as I can judge that from the things I read about them) and exterior, so I'm thinking about Blustag. But I'm also interested in other kennels if they have nice dogs. I believe the dogs you mentioned earlier are from Lynn, so that's probably the right choice for us.

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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by Sylvaen » Sun May 09, 2010 3:46 pm

Gaby wrote:So, the question is, wich bloodlines are there today in the breed? Do we have to look for particular Tamaskan bloodlines when we surch for such a dog? I have the idea that all the Tamaskan are easygoing, but are there even subtile differences in the bloodlines? Are there typical behaviours among the Tamaskan dogs from different lines? For example, easier to train or needs a lot of exercise, things like that. A lot of questions, but I'm very curious. ;) Thank you very much!
Great questions! :D

Jasper, for instance, is very friendly with other dogs but more aloft when it comes to people (strangers in particular). He's not scared of new situations because I socialized him a lot when he was a pup but he does get a bit uncomfortable if he's surrounded by a large group of people and we're just all standing around chatting (about Tamaskans.. lol) and of course he's the center of attention and everyone wants to pet him. Which is fine for a while but eventually he gets bored and has enough. So it's important (with him) not to push him into situations like that where he gets fed up with the attention and wants to go do interesting things (because human talk is just soooo dull... LOL). Usually he lets us know when he's had enough, by either yawning in frustration or vocalizing with a "wooo woooooo" ;)

Vixen, on the other hand, is very friendly and open with people... but just not too interested in other dogs. She likes them to a degree (no aggression or anything) but she's just not bothered. Especially compared to Jasper who just *has* to say hello to all other dogs. Instead she'll say a quick hello and then just "do her thing" (walk around, sniffing here and there, have a quick pee, etc while pretty much ignoring the other dogs). She does, however, get jealous if Jasper completely focuses on the other dog and totally ignores her... so sometimes she will playfight with Jasper to get his attention again, whilst totally ignoring the other dog herself. There's only a few dogs that she has a real bond with, apart from Jasper.

So you can clearly see the difference in the bloodlines with my 2 Tamaskans. Vixen's mother (Bindi) is primarily of the English bloodline whilst Jasper's mother (Susi) is primarily of the Finnish (racing) bloodline. I think there is some subtle variation of character within the different Tamaskan bloodlines BUT most of the bloodlines are quite closely related so there's not a drastic difference either. A lot is just down to the individual dog... even within a single litter you will have some pups that are very outgoing and others that are more timid. This is why it's important to discuss with the breeder exactly what you are looking for (temperament-wise) and the breeder will help to pick out the pup that will be the best match for you with regards to character. :)
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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by blufawn » Sun May 09, 2010 3:57 pm

Even the racing dogs are good off the lead. Lynn does have the largest selection of lines and she is good at spotting the intelligence/character of a puppy at a young age.

There are litters due in a few weeks that are from good lines, my dog Zuul who is half-Finnish and half-English lines who has been mated to Jackal who is an all-round sweetheart and very intelligent. This may be a good litter to choose from, you should speak to Lynn as I am not sure what other litters are planned for this year. Tumanra, Jodie and Heidi have not long had pups so won't be due anymore for a year.
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
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Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by Sylvaen » Sun May 09, 2010 4:13 pm

blufawn wrote:Even the racing dogs are good off the lead.
Jasper can be a bit naughty sometimes when he's off the leash. He never runs away or anything like that but he can be a bit cheeky and will sometimes play the game "catch me if you can" and ignore me when I call him / run the other way / tempt him with treats, etc. Of course, when he's like that, I avoid chasing him at all costs and usually just walk in the other direction... he doesn't want to be left alone so that usually does the trick. (I think Zuul is somewhat the same as Jasper, to a degree, but I think it's because they are both young and full of energy. I'm sure he'll grow out of it when he's older.)

The real contrast between Jasper and Vixen is that Vixen is so perfect when she's off the leash. She always comes when called and is very well-behaved in comparison. The only slight issue is that Jasper's naughtiness has started to rub off on her a bit... she's beginning to learn his bad habits (taking a little bit longer to return when called, rather than instantly, UNLESS food is involved... then it's a different story! LOL).

That being said, both are much better off the leash than typical "racing dogs" - my friend has a husky who is a real nightmare of you unleash him because then he is OFF and nothing will stop him. He just runs and runs and runs far into the distance, and eventually returns when he's tired... but that can take hours and who knows where he ends up. It's a problem because he really NEEDS to run but now she only takes him to enclosed areas where he can't run away... so he still has lots of energy after the walk. I told her she should take him swimming or get a "doggy treadmill" just to take the edge off, before walks. ;)
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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by blufawn » Sun May 09, 2010 4:28 pm

Yes he sounds similar to Zuul, she will not run away but where we walk through the woods if she hears or sees another dog she HAS to go and say hello and she will go out of sight and I worry, but she does come back when she has said hello. Now I keep her on the lead in the woods and let her off when we reach the field. There are usually so many dogs playing on the field she doesn't need to go out of sight to find them.
I think with more training she would be much better, but I have not had the time, this is why I miss Vixen, she was very good for training my younger pups what to do.
But Vixen was very smart and didn't need much training.
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
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Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by Sylvaen » Sun May 09, 2010 5:08 pm

Yep hehehe Jasper is the same way. He is highly intelligent though (more so even than Vixen) but he uses his intelligence in a different way... Vixen is very clever and learns the commands easily, but Jasper chooses to disobey. So I think Jasper is more intelligent overall but Vixen is much better behaved overall.
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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by claireyclaire » Sun May 09, 2010 5:51 pm

I also have 2 Tamaskans who have very different temperaments.

Tala wants to say hello to every dog in the world and is extremely nosy, so I have the same problem as Jennie. If we are in the woods I can't always see where she is and I panic, she always comes back eventually, although I am reluctant to let her off now when I can't see what she is up too. She goes off lead in open fields and will always come back, although she is also similar to Jasper, if there is another dog or a nice smell, she will pretend not to hear for a while! Tala also loves meeting people when we are out and about, and is great in the house with people who are fine with dogs, but she will pick up if anybody is nervous and will Woo-woo at them for a bit until she gets bored.

I do agility with Tala and she is great as she is quick to learn and fast, I have just stopped doing obedience with her although she can do it, she gets bored quite quickly and can be easily distracted and a 'stay' is just torture for her, so we're sticking with what she loves: agility!

Elska on the other hand is so laid back I call her 'coma girl' as a nickname, as that is her preferred state of being. She only wakes up to play, eat or go for a walk and somedays she digs her heels in and tries to avoid walking, not in this house my girl! I have been doing obedience with her since she was 13wks and she is fantastic, very clever, very food orientated, only problem with her is every time we do a 'down stay' she falls asleep! We have just started her on agility but I am not sure that will continue for long, although she is careful and her contact points are good, speed goes against her natural instinct to sleep! She is not really bothered with people or dogs, she is friendly enough and will say a quick hello, but never strays off unless you have food or a bed to get her interested. She has a fantastic recall and will always come back, usually Tala will follow her if she is in one of her deaf moods!

Both of these are fathered by Jackal but Tala is a Susi pup and Elska is from Heidi.

I'm glad I got them in the order I did, Tala-Hyper then Elska-Coma, if I had got them the other way round I would have thought Tala was possessed!!!
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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by Rahne » Sun May 09, 2010 7:09 pm

I'm glad I got them in the order I did, Tala-Hyper then Elska-Coma, if I had got them the other way round I would have thought Tala was possessed!!!
Lol :lol:

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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by miffany » Mon May 10, 2010 1:57 pm

I don't know anything about bloodlines but I have a Tamaskan from Blufawn / Blustag and he is has an exemplary temperament. He is extremely friendly to everyone. He LOVES other dogs and has never shown any hint of aggression, even when he has met unfriendly little dogs that have tried to bite him. He is incredibly good with children and will sit calmly while they stroke him and just wants to lick them to pieces. He says hello to everyone we meet - while also being quite a timid gentle boy. I can't speak highly enough of Tamaskans from my (limited) experience, they are such wonderful, beautiful, big hearted dogs!

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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by Gaby » Tue May 11, 2010 1:32 pm

Everbody, thank you very much for your answers! :D
I can learn a lot from it and it seems to be that there are subtile differences in acitivity rate, if you can train the dog easy and if the dog will demolish the house, haha. :mrgreen: But the differences happen even in dogs who are close related, so I guess a pup can grow up either way and that the characters from the parents maybe do not matter that much. They ar all outgoing and friendlu, but only the real racing lines have a bit more energy and the other lines are a bit smarter. Is this correct?

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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by blufawn » Sat Dec 04, 2010 9:41 am

I think much depends on the bloodlines of the dog. For example I often tell people searching for a new puppy that the Finnish lines tend to be more hyperactive, the old English lines tend to be calmer (expes lines containing Kyte) and the lines containing Star Burst and Tumanra tend to have all the brains, although Jackal pups are also smart (but naughty too).
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
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Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by claireyclaire » Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:31 am

blufawn wrote: although Jackal pups are also smart (but naughty too).
Yep! I can second this!!!! :P
Note to self, next dog needs to be a non-Jackal boy :lol:
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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by Kelly » Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:55 am

What Jenny says is true- Loki is a Jackal male and he is the smarter of the two but willful. Freja is from Finnish descent and she needs more exercise and likes to sleep outside even in the current very cold temps we've been having. Loki is happy just chilling on the couch whereas Freja paces around and keeps licking us if she thinks she needs another run around outside.

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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by Sugalba » Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:34 pm

I agree, all the dogs I have met from Tumanras lines have been calm and smart..... she makes lovely babies, its such a shame she is up for retirement. :(

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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by Nino » Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:38 pm

Sugalba wrote:I agree, all the dogs I have met from Tumanras lines have been calm and smart..... she makes lovely babies, its such a shame she is up for retirement. :(
Hopefully Dallas will make just as loverly babies :-)
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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by SilverGhost » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:58 pm

Nino wrote:
Sugalba wrote:I agree, all the dogs I have met from Tumanras lines have been calm and smart..... she makes lovely babies, its such a shame she is up for retirement. :(
Hopefully Dallas will make just as loverly babies :-)
second this:)

as a daughter of tumanra her pups should be lovely, smart and calm too...;)
but isn't Dingo pure finnish, is he?
what kind of pups does he "produce"?
as naughty as jackal? hyperactive? smart and calm?

any ideas?

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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by blufawn » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:53 am

Well Miffany's Zuuk is a Nevada (Tumanra daughter) x Dingo.
That litter seem to all be loveable rogues ;) not hyper and not naughty, just mischievous.
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
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Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by SilverGhost » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:33 pm

blufawn wrote: I think much depends on the bloodlines of the dog. For example I often tell people searching for a new puppy that the Finnish lines tend to be more hyperactive, the old English lines tend to be calmer (expes lines containing Kyte) and the lines containing Star Burst and Tumanra tend to have all the brains, although Jackal pups are also smart (but naughty too).
that's interesting:)
I'm always asking myself which dogs are from the finnish and which are from the english lines... maybe you could give me a clue especially about the upcoming matings? (dallas, dingo, zuul, rann, timba?)
I'm always a bit confused about which dog or FD is behind these dogs, because I don't know the pedigrees :mrgreen:

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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by blufawn » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:28 pm

Dallas and Rann are pure English.
Zuul is half and half and Dingo is Finnish.
When we plan our matings we like to mix it up and try to put the Finnish dogs to English dogs, the blend of the two seems to create the wolfiest looking dogs and the best temprements.
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
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Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

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Re: Temperament and bloodlines

Post by SilverGhost » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:39 pm

cool:)

thats very good to know.
thx for the info, jennie :)

x

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Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Gaby » Sat May 19, 2012 6:44 pm

Rahne wrote:I'm getting annoyed that certain people keep saying that these pups are all fine, just normal pups, and that the owners aren't experienced enough or are treating the pups in the wrong way etc! Tamaskan dogs are advertised as 'easy' dogs, suitable for everyone! All the pups I've met so far were very outgoing, happy to meet with other people and dogs.

Winter is NOT, he doesn't want people to pet him and sometimes he will growl and bark to people. When he sees other dogs he will growl, bark and sometimes even snap at the other dogs. He was like that from day ONE that I got him so tell me again it is all my fault he is behaving fearfull with other people and dogs! :roll:
Is there any body who has seen the parents of this litter in real life? And if so, how would you describe these parents?

Because the thing surprises me, is that Lynn is acting surprised that these puppies are this way and that people think the owners have something to do with it. She describes Bodie in an other topic as a lovely boy with a gentle nature. I'm sorry Lynn, but this was not what I've seen when I met Bodie, his mother Jodie and his sister JJ. Maybe they are gentle towards people they know, but not towards strangers, at least, when we met them. They did not seek any contact with us and JJ was scared of us. Only Bodie did come up to us, when we walked away and turned our back to him, but not in a nice, happy outgoing dog manner. They are the best looking dogs you have if you ask me, but I wouldn't want a puppy from them because of that.



Look at these dogs, at 39 sec you see JJ and behind her Bodie. If you compare them to the other Tamaskan at the show they don't look comfortable at all walking in the ring (on home territory!)

When we asked you about it, you said that the dogs weren't properly socialized because you where moving houses. But you are moving houses all the time and not all the dogs behave in this way. Most of them are lovely outgoing dogs, as Tamaskan should be. The behaviour I've seen with these dogs and the behaviour that the owners describe looks like the behaviour of wolfhybrids that I've seen in episodes of Cesar Millan. And no, I'm not claiming they have wolfcontent or anything like that, but the behaviour does look the same. The wolfhybrids are aloof with strangers, but because they are mixed with dogs they are more likely not to run away for strangers but they will face them. And that looks like the behaviour Rahne describes with Winter. Feeling uncomfortable around strangers and not moving away, but growling and reacting to them.

It is difficult to describe it good for me, because I'm not that good in English, but I hope people understand me. I would have thought you would have told people about this before you placed them with there new owners. Sadly, this is not the case if I look at Sally's pup. So that means that this is not a discussion about nurture, but it is in the nature of these dogs. So to be honest, I'm not very happy with the Bodie x Nevada mating, if you look at the issues with these puppies. If I had a litter like this, I would have waited for a while to see how the pups develop before using a dog who produces these kind of pups again at stud. People want a Tamaskan because they should be nice and easygoing, not only for their wolflike looks. I hope the new owners will put a lot of effort into training the dogs they have and they will all turn out nicely eventually.

I agree with KRHert regarding to breeding with this litter though.

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Blustag » Sun May 20, 2012 12:07 am

Thankyou Gaby for posting the video nice to see all the dogs again and couldnt honestly see anything wrong with any of it :D

Regarding your comments about my dogs not being comfortable. I dont see any uncomfortable dogs on the video and one has
to bear in mind that the show was held in MY front garden. It is normally very quiet as we live in the middle of nowhere and then
suddenly overnight there are masses of people, strange dogs, tents, caravans, campers and massive hustle and bustle going on
right where my dogs usually enjoy peace and quiet. How many people's dogs would be happy with that??? All the other dogs
are visiting and so I would expect them to be well behaved but for my dogs they were suddenly bought from the back of the house
through to the front garden to find all that activity. I think under the circumstances that they behaved marvelously. No fighting, NO
aggression. What is your problem!.... No dont answer that!

As for Heidi I have said this before and I will say it again. She is one of my dogs that is used for promotional work tv/film etc if you check out my website you will see some photos there. She has an extremely 'over the top' friendly nature with everyone she meets.
As for Bodie he is a sweet boy with a lovely kind nature. He is not like Heidi jumping up on everyone to greet them but likes to take his time greeting people and will do so with kisses. Lots of dogs are like that and there is nothing wrong in that whatsoever.

As for the Golden Litter. Yes there are puppies in that litter that are VERY friendly and outgoing and one or two that it appears from
what is being said on here that arnt. As for the comment that 'several' have or had heart murmours...first I have heard!
Yes Sally's pup was diagnosed with one by a vet and the 2nd vet couldnt find anything wrong. Another had a slight murmour
which is now cleared up.. .. puppies can have murmours that can just vanish so can people. I think the whole Golden Litter discussion has been blown up out of all proportion and is bordering on the ridiculous.

Just for the record which people posting on here may like to know. I am getting mails coming through almost daily now along with
pm's from people who are very sad to see how this forum is going with all the bitching going on. Some posts have had to be removed.
If comments are made about a person then they are going to retaliate and so it goes on. This forum is no longer the happy forum
it used to be and it seems that a lot of mud slinging is going on which is putting people off. I used to highly recommend this forum
to all my puppy purchasers and to all the people enquiring about the breed which come in to me daily but I am going to stop doing
that if things dont improve. Most of you on this forum have bought pups from me so you know that I have recommended you to it.
Do you all really want to look bad. Do you want people to think our forum is no better than the Utonagan and Northern Inuit one or
do you want people to be happy to visit here. Expressing opinions is one thing but bitching and mud slinging is quite another.
Please bear that in mind when next you post and lets get this forum back to the happy one it used to be :D I remember when people used to come on and tell us how nice it was and so different to other wolfdog forums.

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Rahne » Sun May 20, 2012 9:22 am

Blustag wrote:Thankyou Gaby for posting the video nice to see all the dogs again and couldnt honestly see anything wrong with any of it :D

Regarding your comments about my dogs not being comfortable. I dont see any uncomfortable dogs on the video and one has
to bear in mind that the show was held in MY front garden. It is normally very quiet as we live in the middle of nowhere and then
suddenly overnight there are masses of people, strange dogs, tents, caravans, campers and massive hustle and bustle going on
right where my dogs usually enjoy peace and quiet. How many people's dogs would be happy with that??? All the other dogs
are visiting and so I would expect them to be well behaved but for my dogs they were suddenly bought from the back of the house
through to the front garden to find all that activity. I think under the circumstances that they behaved marvelously. No fighting, NO
aggression. What is your problem!.... No dont answer that!
Maybe you should follow some 'reading dog behavior' classes then. Bodie and JJ acted very stressed, unlike any of the other dogs. It could be the show or the fact they were on 'home' ground but it doesn't seem to bother any of your other dogs?
Lynn wrote:As for the Golden Litter. Yes there are puppies in that litter that are VERY friendly and outgoing and one or two that it appears from what is being said on here that arnt.

Maybe the owners could tell which of the pups are outgoing and VERY friendly with strange dogs and people? Which pups actually LIKE to be petted by strangers and don't back away? I think there is only ONE out of 7. Some are improving a lot lately which is great :)
Lynn wrote:As for the comment that 'several' have or had heart murmours...first I have heard!
Yes Sally's pup was diagnosed with one by a vet and the 2nd vet couldnt find anything wrong. Another had a slight murmour
which is now cleared up.. .. puppies can have murmours that can just vanish so can people. I think the whole Golden Litter discussion has been blown up out of all proportion and is bordering on the ridiculous.
You were told about it from several owners. Besides Sally there were 2 or 3 other pups that had mild heart murmurs. That's nothing to be dramatic about but the fact is that several pups were found to have slight heart murmurs.

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Katlin » Sun May 20, 2012 10:16 am

:| In that video it looks like both the dogs in question are having troubles. The first one (Bodie?) was acting nuts and it looks like his handler is having a lot of trouble keeping him in check with a choker chain (probably not the best idea...that's a great way to damage his neck and trachea with the amount they are reefing on his neck :shock:) and another dog that's slinking around like it is terrified. I see a lot of problems with that video Lynn :P but I guess I wasn't there.
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by nivenj » Sun May 20, 2012 10:24 am

On a slight tangent, I think the video is hilarious :-). Looks like an advert for "My first Dog Show". Love the legs Pete! :D
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Rahne » Sun May 20, 2012 10:29 am

nivenj wrote:On a slight tangent, I think the video is hilarious :-). Looks like an advert for "My first Dog Show". Love the legs Pete! :D
We actually had a novelty class 'best four legs' and Pete beat me with that one! :lol:

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Gaby » Sun May 20, 2012 1:05 pm

Blustag wrote:Thankyou Gaby for posting the video nice to see all the dogs again and couldnt honestly see anything wrong with any of it :D

Regarding your comments about my dogs not being comfortable. I dont see any uncomfortable dogs on the video and one has
to bear in mind that the show was held in MY front garden. It is normally very quiet as we live in the middle of nowhere and then
suddenly overnight there are masses of people, strange dogs, tents, caravans, campers and massive hustle and bustle going on
right where my dogs usually enjoy peace and quiet. How many people's dogs would be happy with that??? All the other dogs
are visiting and so I would expect them to be well behaved but for my dogs they were suddenly bought from the back of the house
through to the front garden to find all that activity. I think under the circumstances that they behaved marvelously. No fighting, NO
aggression. What is your problem!.... No dont answer that!
Lynn, most of your dogs are very nice and gentle. But please, don't say you can't see some differences between JJ and Bodie and your other Tamaskans. Not the Tams of other people, but your own other Tams I mean. It's not that there is something wrong with these dogs and I understand the circumstances and their behaviour, but please don't shut your eyes for things like that. If we want a breed with a nice temperament, and I guess we all want that, we have to face the things we don't like too, so we can change it. Search for owners that can cope with this behaviour and search for a partner without the behaviour you don't like.
For example, I love Mila, but I would never breed her with a dog with a lot of hunting instinct and if I would, I would inform the new owners about the change the dog has to be on the leash the whole time, even with good training. I just think it is not fair to blame the new owners if the behaviour is also known with their father and their aunt.

And if people think I am bitching and slinging mud, I'm very sorry and I do not want that. I want honesty and transparency and I give my opinion if I see something I could give my opinion about. My higher goal is helping with creating a breed that has a nice temperament and looks like a wolf. That is the perfect familiy pet. And if I see something that is wondering me, I will say it. That was a thing I found really important and nice about this breed, that you are encouraged to help thinking where the breed would go to and what people would want in a Tamaskan. But apperently I am being accused of bitching and mud slinging. :?

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Czertice » Sun May 20, 2012 1:47 pm

Thanks for the video from the show! So many Tamaskans at one place:] I also think that some of the dogs were scared, but the reasons can be many: lack of socialization, inherent character trait, or just bad day, previous skirmish with another dog outside the ring, some intimidating dog in the ring...
It's brave idea to host a dog show in your backyard, I cannot imagine ever doing that;]
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by michifloo » Sun May 20, 2012 3:49 pm

Gaby wrote:
Rahne wrote:I'm getting annoyed that certain people keep saying that these pups are all fine, just normal pups, and that the owners aren't experienced enough or are treating the pups in the wrong way etc! Tamaskan dogs are advertised as 'easy' dogs, suitable for everyone! All the pups I've met so far were very outgoing, happy to meet with other people and dogs.

Winter is NOT, he doesn't want people to pet him and sometimes he will growl and bark to people. When he sees other dogs he will growl, bark and sometimes even snap at the other dogs. He was like that from day ONE that I got him so tell me again it is all my fault he is behaving fearfull with other people and dogs! :roll:
Is there any body who has seen the parents of this litter in real life? And if so, how would you describe these parents?

Because the thing surprises me, is that Lynn is acting surprised that these puppies are this way and that people think the owners have something to do with it. She describes Bodie in an other topic as a lovely boy with a gentle nature. I'm sorry Lynn, but this was not what I've seen when I met Bodie, his mother Jodie and his sister JJ. Maybe they are gentle towards people they know, but not towards strangers, at least, when we met them. They did not seek any contact with us and JJ was scared of us. Only Bodie did come up to us, when we walked away and turned our back to him, but not in a nice, happy outgoing dog manner. They are the best looking dogs you have if you ask me, but I wouldn't want a puppy from them because of that.



Look at these dogs, at 39 sec you see JJ and behind her Bodie. If you compare them to the other Tamaskan at the show they don't look comfortable at all walking in the ring (on home territory!)

When we asked you about it, you said that the dogs weren't properly socialized because you where moving houses. But you are moving houses all the time and not all the dogs behave in this way. Most of them are lovely outgoing dogs, as Tamaskan should be. The behaviour I've seen with these dogs and the behaviour that the owners describe looks like the behaviour of wolfhybrids that I've seen in episodes of Cesar Millan. And no, I'm not claiming they have wolfcontent or anything like that, but the behaviour does look the same. The wolfhybrids are aloof with strangers, but because they are mixed with dogs they are more likely not to run away for strangers but they will face them. And that looks like the behaviour Rahne describes with Winter. Feeling uncomfortable around strangers and not moving away, but growling and reacting to them.

It is difficult to describe it good for me, because I'm not that good in English, but I hope people understand me. I would have thought you would have told people about this before you placed them with there new owners. Sadly, this is not the case if I look at Sally's pup. So that means that this is not a discussion about nurture, but it is in the nature of these dogs. So to be honest, I'm not very happy with the Bodie x Nevada mating, if you look at the issues with these puppies. If I had a litter like this, I would have waited for a while to see how the pups develop before using a dog who produces these kind of pups again at stud. People want a Tamaskan because they should be nice and easygoing, not only for their wolflike looks. I hope the new owners will put a lot of effort into training the dogs they have and they will all turn out nicely eventually.

I agree with KRHert regarding to breeding with this litter though.
I have seen another clip of this event. With the dogs in question, I agree that they appear uncomfortable in the ring... by all reports, these dogs are not super (or at all) people oriented and need time to warm up to folks/new situations. Just what I have seen in Nixi. She is a very affectionate girl with people she is comfortable with, but it takes some effort with treats and positive re-enforcement to get her comfortable with new people and situations ;)

She's very workable, but may always be shy and intimidated with new encounters ;) The adopter is well aware of that. They are willing to take advice with her special needs and there is a good mentor dog in the home to help Nixi along ;)
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by hearn188 » Sun May 20, 2012 9:04 pm

I do not really want to get involved in the debate here but can I just say there was another litter mate of JJ and Bodie in the above footage from last years show and this was our dog Annu (jodiexjackal) . He was also winner of open dog in this years show where the professional judge made these comments:

1st 2 1/2yr Good size and shape. Excellent temprement, lovely eye shape, good nose pigment, very good feet. Strong hocks, very good mask, well tucked up.

Note the comment about temprement !

We had Annu from 8 weeks of age he has a very different temprement to our older Tamaskan but you can get this with labradors! He needs to know whose boss and be shown that consistently , he is very intelligent and also very loving , he is gentle with children and he was amazing with a handicapped child in a wheel chair we met recently , he seemed to know he needed to behave differently with the child . He is an adolescent male and as such can show some dominant behaviour with other male dogs who want to spar up to him but he loves the ladies , he has 3 tamaskan girlfriends belonging to friends of ours that he loves to kiss and cuddle.

He requires alot of stimulation otherwise he can be destructive but I dont think that singles his breeding out , more so just a well recognised canine behaviour in a number of breeds.

Everyone has different opinions and thats fine as long as we keep a balance and we owe it to the future of this beautiful breed to come together and support all our owners and future owners to nurture these special dogs.
This is all I intend to say but I wanted to try and bring a balance to the conversation and add another perspective from someone who owns a dog from the Jodie/Bodie bloodline.

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Rahne » Sun May 20, 2012 9:37 pm

hearn188 wrote:I do not really want to get involved in the debate here but can I just say there was another litter mate of JJ and Bodie in the above footage from last years show and this was our dog Annu (jodiexjackal) . He was also winner of open dog in this years show where the professional judge made these comments:

1st 2 1/2yr Good size and shape. Excellent temprement, lovely eye shape, good nose pigment, very good feet. Strong hocks, very good mask, well tucked up.

Note the comment about temprement !

We had Annu from 8 weeks of age he has a very different temprement to our older Tamaskan but you can get this with labradors! He needs to know whose boss and be shown that consistently , he is very intelligent and also very loving , he is gentle with children and he was amazing with a handicapped child in a wheel chair we met recently , he seemed to know he needed to behave differently with the child . He is an adolescent male and as such can show some dominant behaviour with other male dogs who want to spar up to him but he loves the ladies , he has 3 tamaskan girlfriends belonging to friends of ours that he loves to kiss and cuddle.

He requires alot of stimulation otherwise he can be destructive but I dont think that singles his breeding out , more so just a well recognised canine behaviour in a number of breeds.

Everyone has different opinions and thats fine as long as we keep a balance and we owe it to the future of this beautiful breed to come together and support all our owners and future owners to nurture these special dogs.
This is all I intend to say but I wanted to try and bring a balance to the conversation and add another perspective from someone who owns a dog from the Jodie/Bodie bloodline.
Yes Annu was much calmer then Bodie & JJ, he walked nicely in the ring. He didn't really liked my Konah though.. poor girl felt offended by that as usually all the boys love her :lol:

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by JulieSmith » Sun May 20, 2012 10:41 pm

hearn188 wrote:I do not really want to get involved in the debate here but can I just say there was another litter mate of JJ and Bodie in the above footage from last years show and this was our dog Annu (jodiexjackal) . He was also winner of open dog in this years show where the professional judge made these comments:

1st 2 1/2yr Good size and shape. Excellent temprement, lovely eye shape, good nose pigment, very good feet. Strong hocks, very good mask, well tucked up.

Note the comment about temprement !

We had Annu from 8 weeks of age he has a very different temprement to our older Tamaskan but you can get this with labradors! He needs to know whose boss and be shown that consistently , he is very intelligent and also very loving , he is gentle with children and he was amazing with a handicapped child in a wheel chair we met recently , he seemed to know he needed to behave differently with the child . He is an adolescent male and as such can show some dominant behaviour with other male dogs who want to spar up to him but he loves the ladies , he has 3 tamaskan girlfriends belonging to friends of ours that he loves to kiss and cuddle.

He requires alot of stimulation otherwise he can be destructive but I dont think that singles his breeding out , more so just a well recognised canine behaviour in a number of breeds.

Everyone has different opinions and thats fine as long as we keep a balance and we owe it to the future of this beautiful breed to come together and support all our owners and future owners to nurture these special dogs.
This is all I intend to say but I wanted to try and bring a balance to the conversation and add another perspective from someone who owns a dog from the Jodie/Bodie bloodline.
Annu is lovely we met him at this years show, he had a lovely run round and play with Saga and the other Tams that were off lead, I would say that most of the Tams there once let off the lead paid very little attention to the people there, even ignoring the young boy running around among them :D apart from Saga who thought he might like to play and grabbed his arm once :oops: , she soon realised he did not want to play and ignored him :D .

Today My son wanted to go to an Unicycling race (he came first in one race second in another :D ) I took Saga and my other dog (a 14 year old terrier). After reading some of this discussion I was taking more notice of her behaviour. Saga is not bothered about going up to people, she may turn and sniff them as we pass, but not much else. This is not to say she is not sociable, at one point a group of children came up and started petting both dogs, they accepted the fuss, but were more interested in what smells were on the floor, neither dog made much of a fuss of them almost to the point of being indifferent, but I am happy with that, better than them trying to lick them or bounce all over them. I would say Saga is reserved around strangers, not shy or scared, just not bothered, unless they have food then she is their long lost friend :lol: :oops: But my terrier is the same so is this just a trait of independent breeds?

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Gaby » Sun May 20, 2012 10:47 pm

Nice to hear that Annu turned out as a nice companion! How was he as a puppy? How is he with other dogs besides the dogs he knows very well? Do you recognize the problems some owners of the Golden Litter describe? If so, do you have tips to make things better for the owners who own puppies that do have problems? Would be nice to share some information.

Of course it is nice to bring some balance to the conversation, thanks to you too Fiona. Is't not that I want to tell bad things, but I do believe we have to be objective against things we notice in this breed so we can improve things. ;)

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