Hunting Instinct?

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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by AZDehlin » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:07 pm

Kyliedelonge wrote:I dont. If some states wanna make owning them illegal I'm all for it. Theyre a wild dog, And while they can be trained and make a great pet, why should people be able to? They're wild and should stay that way.

I am also all for wolf-dogs to be illegal in all 50 united states, as well as any wild animal. It isn't fair to them, they were born wild they should live and die that way too. We are destroying are world.

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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by blufawn » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:54 am

Having owned a wolfdog in the past I dont think they make good (sofa) pets, however as with other wild animals there is no reason people cannot keep them in captivity as long as their habitat is correct. I believe wolfdog ownership can be a joy as long as you know what you are doing. Rather than banning wolfdogs I think that they need greater protection such as the wild animals licences you need in the UK where the animals and areas they are kept in are strictly controled and are regularily checked by authorities without warning
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Tiantai » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:50 pm

blufawn wrote:Having owned a wolfdog in the past I dont think they make good (sofa) pets, however as with other wild animals there is no reason people cannot keep them in captivity as long as their habitat is correct. I believe wolfdog ownership can be a joy as long as you know what you are doing. Rather than banning wolfdogs I think that they need greater protection such as the wild animals licences you need in the UK where the animals and areas they are kept in are strictly controled and are regularily checked by authorities without warning
I stand with Jennie on that one. Besides, what's the point of having these semi-exotic animals banned if the owner could afford a proper environment for them to live comfortably
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Hawthorne » Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:53 pm

Legislation is being pushed through here in Pennsylvania to ban all exotic wild pets in light of what happened in Ohio last year (man released 20-30 different wild animals from his menagerie , then committed suicide.). This legislation does not include wolfdogs but wolves, primates, tigers, etc. I'm completely against banning certain breeds of dogs. Owners should be banned from owning any dog--not dog breeds banned.

Not to beat a dead horse--but are we talking wolfdogs (Czech and Sarloos) or wolf hybrids?

I don't think people should own wolf hybrids. I think too much of it ends up in tragedy for the hybrid. People take them on because they're cute pups and they can own a "wolf" but then cannot meet the needs of the adolescent.

But wolfdogs are a breed of dog--so they are in a different category I would think. However, wolfdogs are not a breed for everyone.
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Rhokk » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:01 pm

I don't think that people should be allowed to own wolves or wolf hybrids. Wolves are not dogs. They don't think or act like dogs, their behavior and instinct is different than that of a dog, and despite what people say about having domesticated them, I think that they're a danger to both the owner and the human beings that they are around.

Wolves look cool and I long for the day where they are friendly as a Labrador, but until that day, I don't think that they should be allowed as pets.

Granted, if you live in the boonies and your closest neighbors are MILES away from you in every direction, I could see the merits in adopting/fostering wolf pups until they can go back to the wild. Otherwise, a big 'ol NOAP from me.

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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by AZDehlin » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:38 pm

Rhokk wrote:I don't think that people should be allowed to own wolves or wolf hybrids. Wolves are not dogs.
I agree with you... There is no better place for a wild animal but in the wild. For me keeping a wild animal is like in prisoning a human that has done nothing wrong.

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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Tiantai » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:33 pm

let's get back on topic
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Hawthorne » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:41 pm

I think that wolfdogs are on topic because they have a higher prey drive than a dog... :D

but anyhow, isn't it prey drive that causes dogs to chase balls?
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by TerriHolt » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:26 pm

Hawthorne wrote:I think that wolfdogs are on topic because they have a higher prey drive than a dog... :D

but anyhow, isn't it prey drive that causes dogs to chase balls?
And with some dogs it's easier to "harness" the pray drive into something productive, ie ball chase/Frisbee catch etc) ... Just a bit more challenging with arctic breeds... Need to find a way to re work the system so it works right...
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Hawthorne » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:47 pm

TerriHolt wrote: And with some dogs it's easier to "harness" the pray drive into something productive, ie ball chase/Frisbee catch etc) ... Just a bit more challenging with arctic breeds... Need to find a way to re work the system so it works right...
We introduced toys to our litter at an early age: very small puppy toys including balls. We would roll them across the floor and they would chase. I read somewhere that if you don't introduce toys and more specifically rolling a ball for a pup by week 5 then they won't have an interest in fetch. Now our girl Raven (Tamaskan) will chase balls and toys--certainly not as obsessively as our lab mix--but she does play. And she doesn't seem to care who gets the toy--she loves to chase the other dog back--whoever is carrying the toy. Tamaskans also seem to love to play keep away: someone has a toy and everyone chases him. Then they trade. It's so cute!

Raven had her interest in squirrels tested yesterday morning. I was out walking her early--at 5 am-- and four squirrels ran in a row up above our heads on the power lines. She stood there and watched, a little overwhelmed. She seems interested in birds, too. Just one more opportunity to teach "leave it."
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by HiTenshi16 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:02 pm

Hawthorne wrote:Tamaskans also seem to love to play keep away: someone has a toy and everyone chases him. Then they trade. It's so cute!
Ulric loves this game! He will go slowly and grab the toy while keeping eye contact with our other dog, then bolt off running with it to get her to chase him, so fun to watch.

Ulric will chase things, like our cats if they run (you would think they would learn by now not to run since they don't like the dogs chasing them), balls that get thrown, which he only brings back to me because he did not wanting our other dog getting it. As far as hunting goes he has not had a chance to really test that out. He has seen wild rabbits run in our yard, and of course want to chase, but he is always on leash so he can't go after them (we still don't have our yard fenced). When we do finally get our yard fully fenced, plan is to buy a couple rabbits (not the kind that are meant for pets but for meat) to let loose in the yard for the dogs to go after, as we know Rukia, our other dog, has been wanting one for a long time. (Don't get me wrong, I love rabbits) I could only see Ulric killing one by accident from being rough in the chase. He did kill a mouse once, we know it was him because if Rukia found it there would have been a bloody mess, this little thing looked like he got squished.
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by TParham86 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:41 pm

HiTenshi16 wrote:
Hawthorne wrote:Tamaskans also seem to love to play keep away: someone has a toy and everyone chases him. Then they trade. It's so cute!
Ulric loves this game! He will go slowly and grab the toy while keeping eye contact with our other dog, then bolt off running with it to get her to chase him, so fun to watch.

Ulric will chase things, like our cats if they run (you would think they would learn by now not to run since they don't like the dogs chasing them), balls that get thrown, which he only brings back to me because he did not wanting our other dog getting it. As far as hunting goes he has not had a chance to really test that out. He has seen wild rabbits run in our yard, and of course want to chase, but he is always on leash so he can't go after them (we still don't have our yard fenced). When we do finally get our yard fully fenced, plan is to buy a couple rabbits (not the kind that are meant for pets but for meat) to let loose in the yard for the dogs to go after, as we know Rukia, our other dog, has been wanting one for a long time. (Don't get me wrong, I love rabbits) I could only see Ulric killing one by accident from being rough in the chase. He did kill a mouse once, we know it was him because if Rukia found it there would have been a bloody mess, this little thing looked like he got squished.

:lol: Mona Lisa caught a bird last week :P It was in the bushes and as it flew out she plucked it right out of the sky. Then after tossing the poor thing around and rolling all over it, she ate it :P She's such a silly girl

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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by TerriHolt » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:44 pm

HiTenshi16 wrote:When we do finally get our yard fully fenced, plan is to buy a couple rabbits (not the kind that are meant for pets but for meat) to let loose in the yard for the dogs to go after, as we know Rukia, our other dog, has been wanting one for a long time.
I think that's an illegal form of blood sport over hear, not too sure... not that i mind it is...
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Gaby » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:48 pm

TerriHolt wrote:
HiTenshi16 wrote:When we do finally get our yard fully fenced, plan is to buy a couple rabbits (not the kind that are meant for pets but for meat) to let loose in the yard for the dogs to go after, as we know Rukia, our other dog, has been wanting one for a long time.
I think that's an illegal form of blood sport over hear, not too sure... not that i mind it is...
I think Mila would like that too :lol: , but doesn't it enhance her prey drive? That would be a reason for me not to do those things.

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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by HiTenshi16 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:52 pm

TerriHolt wrote:
HiTenshi16 wrote:When we do finally get our yard fully fenced, plan is to buy a couple rabbits (not the kind that are meant for pets but for meat) to let loose in the yard for the dogs to go after, as we know Rukia, our other dog, has been wanting one for a long time.
I think that's an illegal form of blood sport over hear, not too sure... not that i mind it is...
It is my husband's idea (he is not fond of rabbits from his experience with them) and will be an only one time thing. One will be let loose in the yard, and then Rukia will be let out to hunt it. And so Ulric is not left out, we will do the same for him.
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Gaby » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:08 pm

HiTenshi16 wrote:
TerriHolt wrote:
HiTenshi16 wrote:When we do finally get our yard fully fenced, plan is to buy a couple rabbits (not the kind that are meant for pets but for meat) to let loose in the yard for the dogs to go after, as we know Rukia, our other dog, has been wanting one for a long time.
I think that's an illegal form of blood sport over hear, not too sure... not that i mind it is...
It is my husband's idea (he is not fond of rabbits from his experience with them) and will be an only one time thing. One will be let loose in the yard, and then Rukia will be let out to hunt it. And so Ulric is not left out, we will do the same for him.
But don't you think it will enhance the preydrive or do you think that if it is so, that it is not a problem? ;)

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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by HiTenshi16 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:33 pm

I'm sure it will enhance it more :? But there are not any areas that we could walk our dogs off-leash, plus there is not much wildlife around us for them to chase given the chance so it will not cause us a problem.
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by juice » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:15 am

lexi caught a sparrow straight out of the air just like mona lisa. must be a litter thing as mona and lexi are sisters. lexi has encountered a deer a couple of weeks ago and didn't chase it but she had not seen one before so i think she was surprised with the size of it,the look on her face was one of shock and excitement :lol: . she has a thing for bee's atm and will catch them in her mouth then spit out and paw at it then throw it around then eat it, so far she hasn't been stung and is not allergic but i think its only a matter of time :roll: .

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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Hawthorne » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:49 am

I can't resist but post the obvious questions (which I know the answers to but want other folks take on this):

These are dogs and are a Northern breed. Don't huskys and malamutes have a prey drive?

What's wrong with a prey drive?

The traits we want in our dogs are personal preference. If you don't want a dog that has prey drive then look at breeds that have zero prey drive.
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by TerriHolt » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:10 am

Hawthorne wrote: What's wrong with a prey drive?
For me, the 1st issue with pray drive is safety. I don't have anywhere near me where it would be safe for my dog to run and chase something without coming to a road or someones house (someone house can be pretty dangerous for a stray dog)...

The 2nd issue and least important than 1st but, still important for me is dogs don't kill without a degree of suffering and i can't willingly inflict pain and suffering on any living thing... I can't even kill spiders or any bugs and i hate them... Like Jo said she will get a rabbit for her dogs to chase, the last thing those bunnies will know is unimaginable pain (no offence intended Jo :D )... I personally, just couldn't do that... I can't even imagine doing that... It's the reason i didn't get out door cats...

and i'm not sure what the hunting law's are hear... Wildlife are protected to a degree by the RSPCA and the laws they enforce.
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
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The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by HiTenshi16 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:14 pm

TerriHolt wrote:no offence intended Jo :D
None taken ;)
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by arianwenarie » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:47 pm

Hawthorne wrote:I can't resist but post the obvious questions (which I know the answers to but want other folks take on this):

These are dogs and are a Northern breed. Don't huskys and malamutes have a prey drive?

What's wrong with a prey drive?

The traits we want in our dogs are personal preference. If you don't want a dog that has prey drive then look at breeds that have zero prey drive.
IMHO, I think ALL dogs have some degree of prey drive in them...have you ever met a dog who wouldn't chase SOME sort of moving object? Prey drive isn't limited to chasing small animals. ;) Prey drive is more of a dog wanting to chase something that moves - it's the chasing. A dog's favorite game in the world. 8-)

My lab, Abby, wouldn't chase a tennis ball, but she will go after her tug toy if I threw it. She wouldn't go after a small dog that's bigger than a chihuahua, but she'll go after cats and squirrels (could care less about birds). :roll:

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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by TParham86 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:55 pm

juice wrote:lexi caught a sparrow straight out of the air just like mona lisa. must be a litter thing as mona and lexi are sisters. lexi has encountered a deer a couple of weeks ago and didn't chase it but she had not seen one before so i think she was surprised with the size of it,the look on her face was one of shock and excitement :lol: . she has a thing for bee's atm and will catch them in her mouth then spit out and paw at it then throw it around then eat it, so far she hasn't been stung and is not allergic but i think its only a matter of time :roll: .

:lol: It must be a litter thing! :D Mona Lisa also plays and eats bees too and lizards when she can catch them ;)

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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by AZDehlin » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:39 am

One of my friends with one of the hawthorn pups caught a bird out of the air too... Yuck! I am glad Zephyr is impatient as he scares everything way a way before he try's to go for it... Not so stealthy.

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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Hawthorne » Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:33 pm

We work very hard on recall with our dogs. This is serious training and so far Freyja is the best. She turns on a dime when I call her if she is off leash. Darwin tends to stick with her and Fenris...well...he's just a goof of a lab mix. We haven't had Raven off leash yet. But so far she's the most highly-educated dog we have. LOL But recall is something that any good dog training course should start to cover from level 1 upwards.
Last week, our instructor had four people standing in a huge square--one person at each corner. Two people held dogs and the person in the opposite corner was to call the dog on "3". The instructor counted 1, 2, 3! And the handlers let the dogs go and the person in the opposite corner had to call the dog to them. Working with distractions in many settings will help your dog achieve success--and you have to continually be more rewarding and more fun that what is going on around them. This exercise was so much fun. I hope we get to do it again! But I admit I'm becoming a dog school junkie.
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Sylvaen » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:58 pm

HiTenshi16 wrote:As far as hunting goes he has not had a chance to really test that out. He has seen wild rabbits run in our yard, and of course want to chase, but he is always on leash so he can't go after them (we still don't have our yard fenced). When we do finally get our yard fully fenced, plan is to buy a couple rabbits (not the kind that are meant for pets but for meat) to let loose in the yard for the dogs to go after, as we know Rukia, our other dog, has been wanting one for a long time. (Don't get me wrong, I love rabbits) I could only see Ulric killing one by accident from being rough in the chase. He did kill a mouse once, we know it was him because if Rukia found it there would have been a bloody mess, this little thing looked like he got squished.
I personally think this is a very bad idea - and rather cruel. Allowing dogs to slaughter a store-bought domestic rabbit in a fenced backyard is nothing like allowing them to hunt wild rabbits. Furthermore, it would only entice them to hunt and kill other furry animals, which could one day include someone's beloved pet or an expensive pedigree rabbit... why set yourself up for such a scenario, rather than encourage your dogs NOT to hunt, or at least not to reward such behavior? some dogs can develop such a high prey drive that even a toddler running through the grass could be seen as something to chase and kill. Is it worth the risk just so that your dogs can have a few minutes of fun, at the expense of a few minutes of terror and pain for a helpless bunny?

Just to add my own recent experience:
Last weekend we were at the Tamaskan Treffen in Germany. On Friday night we camped (in a tent) at a local farm, which has 'holiday accommodation' for guests as well as a barn / horse stable with horses, goats, sheep, rabbits, etc.

My dogs were all fine to watch the animals from a distance, and even got quite close to sniff them - the dogs were curious and interested but not at all predatory. I figured it would be safe to have them off-leash in the camping area; a fenced field that had been divided in half: one side for tents, the other side for sheep/goats with a low electric 'grid' fence dividing the 2 sides - unfortunately the electric fence had not been turned on (perhaps because we had puppies running loose on our tent side and the farmyard owner didn't want them to get shocked if they went up to the fence to see the sheep).
Anyway, everything was fine.

Saturday was the day of the Tamaskan Treffen so we were away from the campsite all day, we just left our tent up because we would sleep there again on Saturday night. On Saturday evening, a family with 2 huskies arrived at the campsite; the huskies were also off-leash and everything was fine... the dogs were all playing together, running around off-leash, and more or less ignoring the sheep (apart from the occasional glance in their direction). On Sunday morning, everyone woke up and went to go drink coffee by the main farmhouse while I decided to pack up the tent and load up the car; the dogs stayed off-leash, playing in the field as usual. As I was packing everything into the car, I heard the sheep bleating in panic and noticed that the 2 huskies had gotten into the sheep side of the field and were chasing them around!

I immediately shouted for help, and for the owners to come get their dogs. The excitement must have driven Zora into a frenzy because next thing I saw, she had also busted into the field and was chasing the sheep/goats around... however, it seemed like more of a game to her, she was just joining in with the fun of the chase. It was really chaotic though, with dogs and sheep running all over the place in a blur of motion and panic and excitement. I put Vixen and Vala in the car, and Dino was trying to grab hold of Zora while the owners of the huskies, who had now arrived on scene, were trying to round up their dogs. It was at this point that I noticed a movement at the back of the field, a dog struggling to hold a sheep down to the ground. I thought it was one of the huskies, but the owners had both of them under control by that point, which is when I realized (to my horror) that it was Jasper!

I hadn't even seen him enter the field - it must have been as I was putting Vixen and Vala in the car and while Dino was occupied with Zora. Jasper hadn't even seemed interested at first, and was definitely outside of the field for most of the time, yet there he suddenly was with one in his grip! We shouted at him and started running towards him (he was in the far corner) - at which point he let go of the sheep, which collapsed to the ground (I figured it was probably in shock) and then we all started chasing Jasper to try to catch him. It was almost impossible - he was absolutely NOT listening at all and was 150% focused on the sheep and nothing else. He was in pure 'hunting mode'... it was like watching Discovery Channel and seeing a lion hunting a gazelle. There was no messing about, no 'game' to it - just pure predator hunting prey. He was very swift and constantly evaded us, to keep chasing after the sheep, which he hunted by nipping on the belly, trying to get a grip so he could tip it over, pin it down and then go straight for the throat. In the end we managed to corner him, and I rugby-tackled him and sat on him until he stopped struggling.

At this point the farm owner came over and I asked if the goat/sheep was OK... and was very shocked when they told me it was dead! In a matter of about 45 seconds or so, he must have managed to grab the throat and either suffocated it, or broken its neck, or it simply died of shock / panic as he was gripping it. There was almost no blood at all from what I saw. I was very shocked and saddened to hear the news, and as I was putting Jasper in the car he was still utterly focused on the sheep that he could see in the distance. I knew that if he was let loose at this point without any human to stop him, he would have killed them all in a matter of minutes. It's just crazy because until then, he was fine to be around livestock and only seemed vaguely curious about them - that all changed when he saw the huskies chasing the sheep and his primal instinct took over... he just did what came naturally to him. Fortunately the sheep he killed was a very young one (which the family had just recently purchased so they were not yet emotionally attached to, unlike their older sheep) and luckily it wasn't a rare pedigree breed. We decided to split the cost of the dead sheep with the farm owners, since they felt partly responsible as they had not turned on the electric fence in the first place.

Now I will have to be extra careful in the future and will have to do extra training with Jasper so that he can be trusted to be near livestock - the last thing I want is him chasing them again, or killing another one, as he could very well get himself shot by an angry farmer in the process, which is well within their right. We were just lucky to have this terrible experience with a very understanding and kind family. Does this mean that I will buy a sheep and put it in the garden for Jasper to chase around and kill, to satisfy his 'blood-thirst' and have a few minutes of fun? Absolutely not! I will do everything in my power to get him to never hunt sheep again... for the sake of his own life, as well as the sheep themselves. It's just not worth the risk and I don't want to encourage such behavior. With any luck I'll be able to find a local farmer that is willing to cooperate so that I can train Jasper onsite (ideally with an electric fence) and, as a last case resort, with an e-collar. I'm hoping it won't be necessary but he definitely needs more socialization with livestock (not less) and in a more controlled manner (on leash etc). I expect he will be fine one-on-one, the real challenge will be if he watches other dogs hunting sheep and sees the sheep fleeing in panic - then he will certainly be inclined to hunt as part of a pack, and less likely to listen to human commands telling him to stop. I still find it hard to believe what I witnessed that day - a dog (MY dog!) that would readily comfort and protect a tiny, helpless, sick kitten: chasing sheep around with the sole intent of catching as many of them as possible. Whether or not he actually intended to kill the sheep, or if he was just following his instinct, is totally irrelevant... the end result is the same: Jasper is a killer. I still love him all the same, but will be doubly careful in the future - also bear in mind, if this can happen with Jasper, it can probably happen with any other Tamaskan or Arctic Breed dog so be sure to take extra precautions and don't leave anything up to chance. :shock:
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by HiTenshi16 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:10 pm

The letting a rabbit loose in the yard is my husband's idea, but after reading this I will try to convince him otherwise.
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Sylvaen » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:13 pm

Men get strange ideas sometimes. I told my friend (a guy) about Jasper killing a goat/sheep and all he could say was "wow cool! way to go Jasper!" lol :roll:
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by TerriHolt » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:30 pm

I'm just pleased my other half isn't like that... I'd set the dog on him to see how he liked doggie teeth sinking into his skin :D (well, i wouldn't but there would be some serious clashes)...

Hope training goes well with Jasper so he doesn't need an e collar... But if it saves his life and that of other animals, maybe he would learn in a short period... I think if he did that to sheep near me he would get shot or if they know where he lives, the dog warden would take him for been 'a dangerous dog'. In light of that, i would favor the e collar...
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by HiTenshi16 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:54 pm

Just spoke with him, still planning on buying a rabbit, BUT will be used to train her not to chase ;) And we will be sure the rabbit is not harmed in any way.
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Sylvaen » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:59 pm

cool, I hope that works out... it will definitely require careful monitoring to control the situation (definitely on leash) and keeping both animals calm (so that the rabbit doesn't panic and so that the dogs won't get too excited).
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by arianwenarie » Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:05 pm

HiTenshi16 wrote:Just spoke with him, still planning on buying a rabbit, BUT will be used to train her not to chase ;) And we will be sure the rabbit is not harmed in any way.
LOL. I hope the rabbit doesn't experience a heart attack - literally. When I used to work at a pet store (that sold small animals), we had someone bring in their dead bunny a week after they purchased him (along with about $1000 in equipment/feed). Apparently, they wanted a refund for all the stuff they bought because they were not told to NOT keep the bunny outside in his custom outdoor wooden hutch overnight when coyotes roam the greenbelt behind their house.

The bunny likely died of a heart attack because there were no wounds on him and the hutch didn't have any signs of an animal trying to break it. XD Obviously, we couldn't give them a refund on the custom ordered hutch, but the unused food and toys we could refund. Not the bunny... :P

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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Tiantai » Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:19 pm

Debby I am also sadden to see that Jasper had to fling off and do that! :(
It's crazy considering that in all the photos I've seen with other animals on facebook such as the fish and so he didn't appear interested in any of the animals but then suddenly he single-handed slaughtered a sheep like a wild coyote. I really don't know what to say about him but I really hope that you can help suppress this part of him in the future so that he'll stay away from any other animals and I hope that Vixen, Vala, and Zora do not ever get to do this either. It was partly the huskies' owner faults for letting their dogs break into the sheeps' enclosure but I hope none of this happens with any of your dogs again either. I've already seen rodents falling victim to Snoopy before and was not surprised when John told me about Tundra flinging out a garden mouse and swallowing it instantly and I've seen Buddy gone nuts over skunks and other wild visitors in the past but I've never witnessed any dog killing a farmer's sheep!
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Rahne » Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:25 pm

fangjingtuanlucas wrote:
HiTenshi16 wrote:As far as hunting goes he has not had a chance to really test that out. He has seen wild rabbits run in our yard, and of course want to chase, but he is always on leash so he can't go after them (we still don't have our yard fenced). When we do finally get our yard fully fenced, plan is to buy a couple rabbits (not the kind that are meant for pets but for meat) to let loose in the yard for the dogs to go after, as we know Rukia, our other dog, has been wanting one for a long time. (Don't get me wrong, I love rabbits) I could only see Ulric killing one by accident from being rough in the chase. He did kill a mouse once, we know it was him because if Rukia found it there would have been a bloody mess, this little thing looked like he got squished.
WTF Jo? :evil: I am SHOCKED to see that you would come up with such a cruel idea!
Can you tone it down a bit Lucas..
HiTenshi16 wrote:Just spoke with him, still planning on buying a rabbit, BUT will be used to train her not to chase ;) And we will be sure the rabbit is not harmed in any way.

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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by skyedream » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:56 pm

You're really lucky the farmer was so understanding. Maya got into a field with two horses in it (twice! About a year in between incidences) and tried to get them to play. She was only circling them, making little noises and mouthing at them from a safe distance but she refused to come away from them. Selective deafness was in full effect. The first time the farmer threatened to have her shot and then drove his land rover at her and the second time he tried to hit her with a plank of wood then called the police! I almost ended up in court!

Needless to say we avoid that farm like the plague now... :oops:
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Hawthorne » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:13 pm

Once something, in this case the sheep, starts running away from dogs it triggers their chase instinct. This is why you never run from a predator. It'd be an invitation to chase you. You really can't blame the dog for this.

This is the difference between dogs and wild canids: many dogs will kill and keep killing. Wild dogs kill to eat so typically won't kill all the sheep at once. And there's nothing wrong with what wild Canids do--it's what they do for a living. It's just unfortunate for the farmer that predation occurs--and eventually probably means the demise of the predator sooner rather than later.
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Sylvaen » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:24 pm

Hawthorne wrote:This is the difference between dogs and wild canids: many dogs will kill and keep killing. Wild dogs kill to eat so typically won't kill all the sheep at once. And there's nothing wrong with what wild Canids do--it's what they do for a living.
Interesting observation but it makes sense.
It also reveals that wild canids are quite different to foxes, which will first kill a lot of chickens (for their own security: less noisy chickens to alert the farmer) and then eat. It seems that domestic dogs just chase and kill for sport, killing as many as possible for fun (rather than food).
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Czertice » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:37 pm

Sylvaen wrote:
Hawthorne wrote:This is the difference between dogs and wild canids: many dogs will kill and keep killing. Wild dogs kill to eat so typically won't kill all the sheep at once. And there's nothing wrong with what wild Canids do--it's what they do for a living.
Interesting observation but it makes sense.
It also reveals that wild canids are quite different to foxes, which will first kill a lot of chickens (for their own security: less noisy chickens to alert the farmer) and then eat. It seems that domestic dogs just chase and kill for sport, killing as many as possible for fun (rather than food).
This could also be connected with the fact that wild canids know very well they shouldn't waste energy or even use it all up at once, unless there is no other choice. What they need is a full stomach, and I imagine once they are full, they prefer to sleep it off, rather to chase more sheep around;]
Some dogs have no such reservations, I hear some dogs would sport till they fall dead from exertion.

There are bound to be exceptions though, even wild animals have inclinations to have fun from time to time.
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by JulieSmith » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:00 am

I read that foxes kill all the chickens in a coup because it is a continuation of what they do if they come across a nest, if they find a nest they snap at as many birds as they can as it makes sense to catch them while it can rather than having to go hunting again. In a nest they might get some of the birds before the rest fly off in a coup the chickens can not escape so the fox just keeps going. I don't think it has anything to do with keeping the hens quiet so as not to attract attention.

For wild dogs once they have caught and killed one animal the others are usually far away or have stopped running so removing the stimulation of seeing the prey running. Farm animals in fields don't have the space to escape the same as wild animals and I think even wild dogs overkill in similar situations.

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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Rahne » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:14 am

Konah does eat her prey...

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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Tiantai » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:32 am

Rahne wrote:Konah does eat her prey...
Can I learn more about the prey she's eaten?
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by rhadamant » Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:34 am

My puppy Tamaskan has basically no prey drive at all! I guess I'm lucky?
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Booma » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:53 pm

You may find that changes with age.
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by Katlin » Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:51 am

Yeah, Wylie hit 6-7 months and his prey drive hit him like a ton of bricks :P
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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by rhadamant » Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:44 pm

Katlin wrote:Yeah, Wylie hit 6-7 months and his prey drive hit him like a ton of bricks :P
Booma wrote:You may find that changes with age.
She's constantly around small dogs, cats and other critters so I think for Echo it is more of a 'has been socialized to think that most small animals aren't prey'. She does have a lot of prey drive towards toys and mice still, however, but she doesn't express her drive towards domesticated pets, thankfully.

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Re: Hunting Instinct?

Post by JulieoftheWolves » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:25 am

I managed to snag a Robin fledgling from my cat this past summer! Took the poor little thing to a local wildlife rescue and rehabilitator. S/he is doing great now! My cat was not pleased with me though. LOL.
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