Sociability

All topics pertaining to the temperament / character of the Tamaskan Dog.
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ahurst
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Sociability

Post by ahurst » Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:59 pm

Hello everyone, I have a problem I hope you can help me with. Tia who is 4 has developed an attitude towards other dogs especially small ones, she calmly sniffs to say hello then bolts into action and uses her paws to push other dogs to the ground if they are small if they are big she can get snappy - very out of character. She is reprimanded for her actions but continues to be what in my eyes a big bully. Once she has met and bulled the dog into the ground she moves on and acts normally around that dog in fact ignores it and carries on??? Any ideas how I can make Tia more sociable when she greets other dogs I don’t want to avoid other dogs as she gets so excited when she sees other dogs but I can’t trust that she will behave, she has been integrated with all kinds of dogs during her puppy classes I don’t understand why she is like this now.
Any ideas for meet and greet techniques?
Thanks
Anna :)

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Re: Sociability

Post by Sylvaen » Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:24 pm

It sounds like she is exerting her dominance (rather than acting out of pure aggression) so I think with extra training it is something that can be improved and worked on.
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Re: Sociability

Post by Canadia » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:22 am

Finch has started doing exactly the same thing in the last couple of days - I'm putting him back on the lead and retraining him in his greeting ettiquette - if anyone has any tricks or tips that will help us along it would be greatly appreciated if you share! x

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Re: Sociability

Post by Tiantai » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:56 am

Canadia wrote:Finch has started doing exactly the same thing in the last couple of days - I'm putting him back on the lead and retraining him in his greeting ettiquette - if anyone has any tricks or tips that will help us along it would be greatly appreciated if you share! x
May I ask if you're in the lead when walking him?

Because one of the major problems I've seen with many dogs is their owners allowing them to get in front when the dog is supposed to stay beside them and sometimes slightly behind in order to ensure that you remind them that you're the dominate in the pack. Dogs live on this hierachy much like wolves. In every pack there is at least two alphas and everyone else is below but in your case you're the human and that means you're the alpha-plus he he must recognize that he's alway beta around you. For most of the unwanted behaviours, you need to catch them on the spot and given them the reminder that you don't approve of those behaviours and although not always the case, I've noticed that most of the dogs who lead their owners instead of the other way around are usually the ones that need to be rehabilitated. I don't reccommend having the dog lagging behind because sometimes a dog can (quite literally) do things behind your back without your knowledge. Does Finch understand the phrase "no" meaning "negative"? Since dogs tend to have limited understanding of human vocabularies, I think as long as your dog understands five crucial phrases and one being a negative phrase then you can used it again and again whenever you catch him doing something that you don't approave of so that he doesn't do it once he understands that it's wrong. And don't let him lead you on walks, you're the alpha!
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Re: Sociability

Post by Rahne » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:59 am

How do Tia and Finch act when they are still on the leash? Do they greet in the same way then? If they are calmer when they are on the leash it might be a good idea to let them greet the other dog when still on the leash and let them go off when the exitement of greeting is over.
fangjingtuanlucas wrote:
Canadia wrote:Finch has started doing exactly the same thing in the last couple of days - I'm putting him back on the lead and retraining him in his greeting ettiquette - if anyone has any tricks or tips that will help us along it would be greatly appreciated if you share! x
May I ask if you're in the lead when walking him?

Because one of the major problems I've seen with many dogs is their owners allowing them to get in front when the dog is supposed to stay beside them and sometimes slightly behind in order to ensure that you remind them that you're the dominate in the pack. Dogs live on this hierachy much like wolves. In every pack there is at least two alphas and everyone else is below but in your case you're the human and that means you're the alpha-plus he he must recognize that he's alway beta around you. For most of the unwanted behaviours, you need to catch them on the spot and given them the reminder that you don't approve of those behaviours and although not always the case, I've noticed that most of the dogs who lead their owners instead of the other way around are usually the ones that need to be rehabilitated. I don't reccommend having the dog lagging behind because sometimes a dog can (quite literally) do things behind your back without your knowledge. Does Finch understand the phrase "no" meaning "negative"? Since dogs tend to have limited understanding of human vocabularies, I think as long as your dog understands five crucial phrases and one being a negative phrase then you can used it again and again whenever you catch him doing something that you don't approave of so that he doesn't do it once he understands that it's wrong. And don't let him lead you on walks, you're the alpha!
Lucas please :roll:
My dogs are all allowed to walk in front of me, as long as they don't pull, and I have no dominance issues whatsoever. They are also allowed to sit on the couches, sleep on the bed, stand on the table to look outside, go in and outside of the house before me etc. I think you take Cesar Milan a bit too serious.. Don't forget that the dogs he is helping mostly have serious behavioral issues. Besides that, this isn't about dominance in relationship to the owner but dominance in relationship with other dogs.

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Re: Sociability

Post by Nino » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:11 pm

Rahne wrote:Lucas please :roll:
My dogs are all allowed to walk in front of me, as long as they don't pull, and I have no dominance issues whatsoever. They are also allowed to sit on the couches, sleep on the bed, stand on the table to look outside, go in and outside of the house before me etc. I think you take Cesar Milan a bit too serious.. Don't forget that the dogs he is helping mostly have serious behavioral issues. Besides that, this isn't about dominance in relationship to the owner but dominance in relationship with other dogs.
I have no dominance problems what so ever either, and never had them. And both my dogs have been waking in front of me too (though Kovo I have up on teaching him not to pull cause he was an older dog when we got him and Nina didn't care if he pulled so it was a pain in the but when half the time he could pull and the other half not).
Sølve walks through doors before me and sleep in beds with me, though she cant be in other furniture and on tables :lol:

The Caesar Milan stuff is really really something you should be careful with Lucas, there is a reason he gets bit as often as he gets :?
If you want to see something ells than all the dominance (I'm inclined to say crap here) you should watch Victoria Stilwell and how she help dogs with their people problems - her ways are totally different but none the less works wonders, and her training is more based on the humans than on the dogs.

Caesar Milan is really something you should pick and choose from, cause not all his solutions and ways are neither smart nor sustainable in the long hold.
>> Nino <<
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Re: Sociability

Post by Booma » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:20 pm

Is that the pommy chick that does the "it's me or the dog" show? I like that one. A lot of people just don't know how to train their dogs (not saying that's the case here)
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Re: Sociability

Post by Blustag » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:26 pm

Lucas...quick question for you. How many dogs have you owned? how many do you have now? Have you trained any dogs up for competition? and won?
If so what kind of competition? When I read your post I could tell that you
were speaking along the lines of Ceasa Milan. Some of his work is ...ok... other is chronic. For the record ALL my dogs walk in front ;) I have been training dogs up to Police Dog standard for more than 30 yrs and have never
had a problem with them walking infront of me. I have also competed against the Police in Working Dog Trials.,,.,. and beaten most of them :lol:

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Re: Sociability

Post by TerriHolt » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:57 pm

Kyliedelonge wrote:Is that the pommy chick that does the "it's me or the dog" show? I like that one. A lot of people just don't know how to train their dogs (not saying that's the case here)
i like her, she seems nice :D
Blustag wrote: I have also competed against the Police in Working Dog Trials.,,.,. and beaten most of them :lol:
modest too :lol:
Rahne wrote:Lucas please
My dogs are all allowed to walk in front of me, as long as they don't pull, and I have no dominance issues whatsoever. They are also allowed to sit on the couches, sleep on the bed, stand on the table to look outside, go in and outside of the house before me etc. I think you take Cesar Milan a bit too serious.. Don't forget that the dogs he is helping mostly have serious behavioral issues. Besides that, this isn't about dominance in relationship to the owner but dominance in relationship with other dogs.
yep, all the dogs my mum has had have been allowed to do the same... i don't think, unless there is some really big behavioral issues, you need that theory. i mean, humans chose to domesticate the wild dog they should stop treating them like the wild counterparts and treat the dogs they domesticated with a domesticated attitude. some people will disagree but i've never trained the 2 dogs i've owned (not a huge number but my mums had many and still never done it) in the way wild dogs train their pack and have had no problems at all. there has been strictness as all 'children' need to know their place but not to the extreme extent Cesar Milan takes it to where all dogs are lower life forms and they are dog there for the floor is the only place good enough and i am boss, you WILL stand behind me etc... i know they still need the 'pack' structure but to make them... idk, not a family member, just a dog is not something i find necessary.
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Re: Sociability

Post by Sylvaen » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:45 pm

Keep in mind that sledding breeds (huskies, tamaskans, etc) are 'used' to being out in front - it's in their ancestry. ;)
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Re: Sociability

Post by Canadia » Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:06 pm

Yeah - Finch tends to walk ahead when he's on the lead but when he's off he's not bothered so long as I'm nearby. The only time he's actly overtly dominant is when he meets a small dog he doesn't know that is on the lead (and at this point he knows every single dog that walks through the park regularly, so it's not a huge issue, but you never know when you're going to meet a new pup). For the last few days I've been keeping him on the lead when he meets a new dog to make sure he says a proper hello instead of diving right in and it's worked out well. After this it's become pretty clear that the main problem hasn't been Finch but the reactions of owners who don't know us and don't know how friendly he is. They tend to pull their little dogs back when they see him coming and the pups get quite anxious - Finch usually bows down for dogs when he's on the lead and allows them to choose to approach or not - and this never fails to sooth the anxiety of both animal and owner! It isn't a major problem, however, I would love any suggestions for training him to stay by me when he sees a new dog so I can keep him off the lead - right now he is so happy to see another four-legged friend that I can't keep him from introducing himself and spooking other owners who think he's a wolf about to swallow their little ones!

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Re: Sociability

Post by Tiantai » Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:36 pm

Sylvaen wrote:Keep in mind that sledding breeds (huskies, tamaskans, etc) are 'used' to being out in front - it's in their ancestry. ;)
I wasn't talking about sled pulling. There is a HUGE difference between walking a dog on a leash and pulling a sled. When walking a dog, I want to keep the dog BESIDE me (I don't like having them behind because depending on each dog's personality you never know what they could do behind your back. I've been knocked over playfully by the Alusky once which is why I prefer them beside me but I know NOT ALL Huskies and Malamutes are prone to that behaviour), but when they're pulling the sled or wheel bike you obviously want them in front. How the word can a dog pull a sled if they are behind you?
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Re: Sociability

Post by Tiantai » Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:46 pm

Canadia wrote:Yeah - Finch tends to walk ahead when he's on the lead but when he's off he's not bothered so long as I'm nearby. The only time he's actly overtly dominant is when he meets a small dog he doesn't know that is on the lead (and at this point he knows every single dog that walks through the park regularly, so it's not a huge issue, but you never know when you're going to meet a new pup). For the last few days I've been keeping him on the lead when he meets a new dog to make sure he says a proper hello instead of diving right in and it's worked out well. After this it's become pretty clear that the main problem hasn't been Finch but the reactions of owners who don't know us and don't know how friendly he is. They tend to pull their little dogs back when they see him coming and the pups get quite anxious - Finch usually bows down for dogs when he's on the lead and allows them to choose to approach or not - and this never fails to sooth the anxiety of both animal and owner! It isn't a major problem, however, I would love any suggestions for training him to stay by me when he sees a new dog so I can keep him off the lead - right now he is so happy to see another four-legged friend that I can't keep him from introducing himself and spooking other owners who think he's a wolf about to swallow their little ones!
I agree with the problems being the owners, it's usually the issues with owners' reaction when they meet anothers' dog and worry that the others' bigger dog and have no knowledge of how friendly another's dog is. I remembered that my Buddy was always getting those "aww cute!" but when walking Boxer the pug or when walking with my relatives who are out with Snoopy we get those nervous looks. The don't admit that they're nervous at Snoopy but I can tell from the passer's body language they way they try not to look at him and poor Snoopy gets lets positive attention than the former two combined. I hope you keep up the good work with however. And yes I do follow SOME of Millan's methods on some of the dogs such as those slow tread mills for the pug and ensuring that the dog, especially Snoopy, understands what's right and what's wrong but I most definitely don't over-dominate the dog like he does nor resort to those "kicks" that many have been complaining about. Millan is not all bad but I can see why a lot of people have mixed opinions about him.
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Re: Sociability

Post by Canadia » Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:03 pm

Sorry - I didn't mean to start ye old Milan debate :lol: If we could create a new topic thread for it I still need some advice (preferrably along positive reinforcement lines :) )

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Re: Sociability

Post by Tiantai » Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:18 pm

Blustag wrote:Lucas...quick question for you. How many dogs have you owned? how many do you have now? Have you trained any dogs up for competition? and won?
If so what kind of competition? When I read your post I could tell that you
were speaking along the lines of Ceasa Milan. Some of his work is ...ok... other is chronic. For the record ALL my dogs walk in front ;) I have been training dogs up to Police Dog standard for more than 30 yrs and have never
had a problem with them walking infront of me. I have also competed against the Police in Working Dog Trials.,,.,. and beaten most of them :lol:
Well I guess you have your own way and I'm open to that too but I usually kept my Buddy, and once in a while, Snoopy and Boxer beside me at all times even before I heard about the legendary Dog Whisperer. It's just the way I walk the dogs. But WOW you beated the Polices! That's EXTREMELY IMPRESSIVE! :lol:

As for the Millan methods, I do use some of Millan's styles such as using the thread mill on slow speed for Boxer as well as teaching Buddy the differences between what's tolerated and what's not using positive reinforcements like "Excellent" which I've permanently encoded in his mind since childhood so he understood it as "you approve!" and "NO" for "you don't approve". A lot of his methods have worked on the dogs that I've been close to but I could never get my relatives' approval for entering their dogs in competitions though I THINK Boxer would have excelled in obedience. I like the idea of balancing the energy level for everydog because as much as many tend to criticize Millan for using outdated methods of imposing his dominance on a draconian level which I partially don't agree on with the exception of the owner being in charge, he's right about energy levels, positive reinforcements, and leadership. I've never met him but he has indirectly helped me. Though once again, I'm open to your methods and if you let him walk in front without having problems then that's fine as long as they work out well for you. But I've never liked getting dragged by an excited dog which is why I always ensure that every dog, large or small, that I've looked after are usually beside me but never behind or in front. That's my way of walking with dogs; I've seen many unique methods among different owners on socializing and trainings. Every person has their own way and I'm fine as long as they don't resort to flogging at the dog. Anything that involves instilling pain is where I draw the line and I may even report the owner for cruelty as well.
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Re: Sociability

Post by Tiantai » Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:20 pm

Canadia wrote:Sorry - I didn't mean to start ye old Milan debate :lol: If we could create a new topic thread for it I still need some advice (preferrably along positive reinforcement lines :) )
I'll see if I can recreate a topic and move all that Millan-relates stuff here onto that topic and then post a link to it here
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Re: Sociability

Post by Booma » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:15 pm

I don't care if Tyson walks infront of me so long as the leash has slack. If he tries to pull me, he gets a stern "Uh!" and he'll heel.
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