Future Head Shape...?

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Future Head Shape...?

Post by Valravn » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:27 pm

That's what came to mind when I saw this picture…

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All I could think was "One day Tams will look like this!" ;)

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by blufawn » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:29 pm

lol... I wish
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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Valravn » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:33 pm

Positive thinking! If you believe you can achieve! lol :)

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Blustag » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:31 pm

I agree... Jodie isn't far off this look already! :D

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by kendrrat » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:01 pm

That's what I was thinking - compare that picture to your avatar picture... not bad ;)

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by JoshC » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:38 pm

Jodie is Amazing!!!

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Sylvaen » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:52 pm

To be honest, I prefer dogs with a slight stop... the faces of these wolfdogs are very sloped and the profile view reminds me a bit of a collie... it is wolf-like, but I still prefer our Tamaskan faces, with a slight stop. ;)
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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Valravn » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:35 pm

Hmm. I never thought "Collie"… but I see some resemblance.
We definitely don't want Tams looking like collies! lol

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Emielle » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:10 pm

Beautiful. I agree about the stop though, a slight stop is much more attractive in my opinion.
Also, Jodie is gorgeous, I love her. <3
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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Sylvaen » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:54 am

I think too much of a slope, with Tamaskan coloring, could end up looking more like a collie than a wolf... but I also think we're on the right track for general appearance. Jodie's offspring will probably end up looking similar to the one in the first photo. ;)
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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by hearn188 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:12 am

I almost did a double take, except for the shape of the stop I think Annu has a very similar colouring and mask as this wolf dog.
Feel free to tell me I am just being biased! :oops: :)
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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Nino » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:45 am

You're right.
But I like Annu better because of the stop, which I think is too slight on the first picture (yes, I also think collie)
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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Blustag » Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:49 pm

Both stop and eye shape is important. Nothing looks worse on our Tamaskan than round eyes. They have to be almond shape.

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by JulieSmith » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:05 pm

Lovely pics. I have to agree I think I prefer Jodi, but Annu is lovely as well.

These pictures got me thinking as Tamaskans get more wolf like how will the ordinary person wanting to buy one tell the difference between a wolfdog and a Tamaskan? Of course you can do your research on the breeder, but its hard to find a breeder who doesn't have at least one person saying they are doing it wrong!

The information on the German Shepherd Dog was interesting and got me thinking is wolf content in a dog a bad thing? I know the GSD had a bad time years ago, but I always put that down to the type of person who wanted to own it, they were the status dog at the time a bit like pit bulls are today. Could some of the problem have been the wolf content? I just hope that the Tamaskan is not the next status dog, with bad breeders like RPK adding wolf.

What are the main differences in temperament of Tamaskans and wolfdogs?

If RPK has added wolf to his Tamaskan Wolf Dogs how dangerous is it if someone gets the dog thinking it is a dog not knowing it has wolf in it? I know I have picked Tamaskans because of the 'no wolf' content and I am sure most RPK customers are the same.

Sorry for so many questions, but that picture got me thinking, at the moment the TDR can keep track of breeders and dogs, but if they get the Kennel Club recognition then all most people will do is see if they are KC registered breeders/puppies and not look at the TDR as much.

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by kendrrat » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:48 pm

I'm a very strong believer in the fact that an owner highly contributes to the over all actions of a dog- and never is that more true lately than in pit bulls and "bully" breeds like it. These dogs have great capability for love, but in the wrong hands they can turn fearful and aggressive. Unfortunately for dogs like this, and probably wolf dogs too, its is the bad apple that ruins the bunch.

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by JulieSmith » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:01 pm

I agree, you just have to look at the changes in dog attacks as different breeds become the status dog. Although pit bulls do seem to be more trigger happy than most, but that is probably because they are the current status dog and breed to be short tempered.

The pics of wolf dogs and pure wolves posted on this site look wonderful and I would love to do the wolf walk that Lynn mentioned, I am sure it feels so different to be in the company of a wild animal, even a tamed one. I find wolves and wold dogs fascinating as they are such lovely animals, but are only for the experienced owner, or in the case of wolves left in the wild.

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by torriarno » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:43 am

Yay Jodi is real cool and very beautiful :)
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Re: Tamaskan 2020(?)

Post by Sugalba » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:22 pm

Sylvaen wrote:To be honest, I prefer dogs with a slight stop... the faces of these wolfdogs are very sloped and the profile view reminds me a bit of a collie... it is wolf-like, but I still prefer our Tamaskan faces, with a slight stop. ;)
I like the wolf faces, I think it is a shame that we cant get the Tamaskan to have less of a stop and so look more wolf-like...

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Hawthorne » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:59 am

I agree. I prefer a straight forehead.
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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Nino » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:50 pm

I still think the first picture has a too straight forehead - but it could be the angle.

Even this wolf seems to have a little more stop than that picture

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Blustag » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:13 pm

Wolves vary tremendously in the head. I have seen wolves look EXACTLY like Jackal and others look exactly like Jodie and both of them are different to the extreme. Also photo angles do mislead enormously especially where size / height is concerned.

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Sylvaen » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:28 am

It's interesting because Jasper (of Jackal + Susi) has a very gentle stop (nice slope)
whereas Vixen (of Jackal + Bindi) has a more pronounced stop (and rounder eyes)...
BUT Jasper & Vixen's daughter, Vega, has a very steep / wolfy stop, which is even more sloped than Jasper's:

Image

Comparison: Daughter & Mother
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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Rahne » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:29 am

Vega has a really nice head :)
I think with Vixen it also looks more pronounced because of her short muzzle.

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by SpiritEcho » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:15 am

Chiarosa wrote:All I could think was "One day Tams will look like this!" ;)
LOL this is what I imagined one day... however, as long as the breeders don't overdo it, it wont happen ;)
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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Valravn » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:23 am

Eep! I don't think that's what we want. :lol:

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by SpiritEcho » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:25 am

By 2030 we could have this :lol:
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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Valravn » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:35 am

…That's just scary…

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Sylvaen » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:41 am

loooooooooooooool :lol:
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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Nino » Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:34 am

Bull Tamaskan ? :P
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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by sequoia » Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:45 pm

Nino wrote:I still think the first picture has a too straight forehead - but it could be the angle.

Even this wolf seems to have a little more stop than that picture

Image
-Agreed, I prefer the stop on the Tams. I feel like there's a lot of neck on that first dog :)
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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by sequoia » Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:46 pm

Nino wrote:Bull Tamaskan ? :P
hahaha... a new breed - the Spuds Mckenzie Tamaskan!
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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by sequoia » Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:49 pm

Sylvaen wrote:It's interesting because Jasper (of Jackal + Susi) has a very gentle stop (nice slope)
whereas Vixen (of Jackal + Bindi) has a more pronounced stop (and rounder eyes)...
BUT Jasper & Vixen's daughter, Vega, has a very steep / wolfy stop, which is even more sloped than Jasper's:

Image

Comparison: Daughter & Mother
Image
Wow, that is quite a contrast!
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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Blustag » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:32 pm

IF Vixen's head was turned in the same direction as Jasper's then it wouldnt
look quite as bad. Also the colour differences in the head can make the comparisons look different. Vixen does of course have a shorter muzzle
but photos can be very deceiving and exaggerating.

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Ciaobella » Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:58 am

I actually love that head :)
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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Nino » Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:08 pm

Blustag wrote:IF Vixen's head was turned in the same direction as Jasper's then it wouldnt
look quite as bad. Also the colour differences in the head can make the comparisons look different. Vixen does of course have a shorter muzzle
but photos can be very deceiving and exaggerating.
It's not Jasper - but I agree :lol:
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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Sylvaen » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:17 pm

Nino wrote:
Blustag wrote:IF Vixen's head was turned in the same direction as Jasper's then it wouldnt
look quite as bad. Also the colour differences in the head can make the comparisons look different. Vixen does of course have a shorter muzzle
but photos can be very deceiving and exaggerating.
It's not Jasper - but I agree :lol:
Yep, that's Vega: Vixen and Jasper's daughter. :)
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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Blustag » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:14 am

Sorry my mistake was more interested in the head shapes :lol: they are
all lovely though ;)

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by cindy23323 » Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:34 pm

The girl in the first picture there is my female Selene in her summer coat. She is a high content wolfdog.

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by cindy23323 » Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:37 pm

Selene is a F1 98%, that is what a high content wolfdog or pure wolfs head is supposed to look like. Sorry tried to edit my post and add this sentence but it wouldn't let me for some reason

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Beaverpup91 » Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:38 pm

I too also like the real wolf's lack of stop, or very slight stop. I didn't think of Collies at all when I saw the picture of Selene at the top. :) I think that having a slight/no stop will help Tams look a lot more wolfy! I also think we need to work more on producing large, wedge heads and longer muzzles instead of narrow heads with short muzzles and pronounced stops. The narrow head/short muzzle with a stop looks too much like a Husky instead of a wolf, in my opinion. And eyes....I think we need more oblique, almond-shaped eyes, instead of level, round eyes. If we could bring more gold/amber/yellow/green eyes into the breed, that would also go a long way towards improving the wolfy look, I think! :3

Cindy, your girl is stunning! One of Selene's parents is a pure wolf of course, since she is an F1, but was the other parent a Mid, or High? She is really just lovely. <3 I'd love to know who bred her! I'm studying wolf and high content structure to try to get a better idea of which features I would like to work on improving when I start breeding in a few years, and talking to actual High Content breeders is really helpful in getting information!

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by cindy23323 » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:44 pm

Already spoke to you about it on Facebook ;)

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Hawthorne » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:45 pm

Beaverpup91 wrote: I also think we need to work more on producing large, wedge heads and longer muzzles instead of narrow heads with short muzzles and pronounced stops. The narrow head/short muzzle with a stop looks too much like a Husky instead of a wolf, in my opinion.
I agree. I have a gray wolf skull and the ratio of the muzzle to back skull is 1:1. So if you measure from the eyes to the tip of the nose, it is the same length as the measurement from the eyes to the back of the skull. Additionally, the length to width ratio is 2:1. My male, Darwin, has a muzzle that is too short if this is taken into account.

Of course we are talking ideals here :D
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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Eventide » Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:32 pm

Hawthorne wrote:I have a gray wolf skull and the ratio of the muzzle to back skull is 1:1. So if you measure from the eyes to the tip of the nose, it is the same length as the measurement from the eyes to the back of the skull. Additionally, the length to width ratio is 2:1.
I think sometimes it's important to reiterate that the Tamaskan is bred to look like the Grey Wolf, as there are so many types of wolves, worldwide, and they all tend to look different in appearance and structure.
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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Kootenaywolf » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:34 pm

I totally agree that a slight stop really adds to an overall wolfy look, it makes a huge difference.

My ANCD has a pretty slight stop and I think it's one of his wolfier features...

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I also have a collie with NO stop, and also just an entirely different heady shape, really. Doesn't look wolfy on him!

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Valravn » Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:08 am

^ Excellent comparison. Yarrow's stop makes him look very wolfy!

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Crisp » Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:13 am

I find that people feel that the Shikoku head shape (though it varies some) is fairly wolf-like. I think it looks plastic and fake, but that's just because I know what Shikoku USED to look like prior to intense selection and pruning. The head shape wasn't really intended to look wolf-like, but was the product of making dogs look better for the show ring.

Still, it's a good marriage between the gentle slope and noticeable stop.
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I loooove the skull shape and stop on @Kootenaywolf's ANCD! Beautiful!

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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Katlin » Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:24 am

I really like the look of Shikokus, they have awesome colors and build, I was tempted by one, but they are a bit too small for what I wanted :)
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Re: Future Head Shape...?

Post by Crisp » Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:52 am

Katlin wrote:I really like the look of Shikokus, they have awesome colors and build, I was tempted by one, but they are a bit too small for what I wanted :)
A lot of people fall in love with how Shikoku look and out of love once they actually meed a Shikoku, lol. They sure LOOK nice though.

Hunting line Shikoku Ken (almost impossible to find these days) have a very handsome head shape. A little more solid and heavy-feeling - like a wolf or a primitive breed - than the standard.

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