Blu's Black and Liver Tams???

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martinbernstein
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Blu's Black and Liver Tams???

Post by martinbernstein » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:16 pm

Just saw new photos posted by Lynn on the Tamaskan FB page. I believe her daughter has produced a new litter and there are jet black tams and a liver tam in it. I've seen dark grey tams, black agouti tams, reddish tams, but I haven't seen jet black ones or liver ones.

Anyone know who the parents of this litter are?

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Vajente
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Re: Blu's Black and Liver Tams???

Post by Vajente » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:22 pm

Winni (ced x tamaskan) and maverick (malamute x tamaskan)
the black comes from Winni who got it from her ced father, the liver comes from the ced and malamute

you can hardly call these pups Tamaskan

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Tiantai
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Re: Blu's Black and Liver Tams???

Post by Tiantai » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:54 pm

well, it's the Blus after all. :roll:
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Tatzel
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Re: Blu's Black and Liver Tams???

Post by Tatzel » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:49 am

Blufawn said they did this outcross to ensure having more blackgreys... but the pups seem to be solid black, and not blackgrey?
Also I personally think black grey is not the neatest color on Tams at all... the wolfygrey/wolfred color and mask is what really make these dogs wolfy looking.
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Re: Blu's Black and Liver Tams???

Post by Valravn » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:31 am

Tatzel wrote:Blufawn said they did this outcross to ensure having more blackgreys... but the pups seem to be solid black, and not blackgrey?
Also I personally think black grey is not the neatest color on Tams at all... the wolfygrey/wolfred color and mask is what really make these dogs wolfy looking.
That sounds like BS to me. I don't think they had any idea what they would get from this mating. They don't seem to understand genetics very well IMO.
They look solid now, but they will most likely phase like Winni as they get older.

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Re: Blu's Black and Liver Tams???

Post by Katlin » Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:18 am

One of them is definitely going to phase, if you look around the eyes you can see the grey coming in.
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Re: Blu's Black and Liver Tams???

Post by darazan » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:43 am

I really like the Black Grey/Black Phase Tamaskans, but I do understand that it really is a rarity in Tamaskan lines without outcrossing. Does the TDR have any plans for these Black Grey Tamaskans, since they are an accepted coat color in the Breed Standard?

Also, since the subject of outcrossing was brought up, are any other breeds/lines still being brought into the Tamaskan to "bolster the bloodlines" as it were or has the Tamaskan reached a point where breeding is only Tamaskan x Tamaskan without the worry of inbreeding or passing on illnesses or disorders?

As a side note, I was very sad to see that the old forum as been put back up as a means of discrediting the people here, and further misinforming and confusing those new to the breed. :( I can only imagine what stress and strain that must additionally put on the Committee members, who are doing all they can to be honest and open about what they have learned, and are trying to do what's best for the breed.
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Re: Blu's Black and Liver Tams???

Post by Rahne » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:49 am

Actually they are all a perfect shape, have lovely small ears and correct heads. They look very much like Tamaskan except that the colour is not what we are looking for in 2 of the puppies. Bear in mind that these puppies are the result of a breeding program designed to save the black grey Tamaskan from extinction. Because of the ancestry of the parents it was expected that other colours may pop up in this mating, but at the end of the day we achieved what we set out to do and we now have two black grey puppies totally unrelated to our other black grey Tamaskan. This is a great achievement and will help preserve the colour in the breed. Although some will have to have restrictions on their paperwork, I am very pleased with the way the litter has turned out, they are all stunning pups and to say that not a single pup fits the breed standard is ridiculous, Blufawn Morticia Adams for example fits the standard perfectly for colour and looks as do both black greys.
ROFL! They have no clue of what they are doing. Winni is dominant black so it doesn't matter who she is bred to, even if the male is purple... she can produce black pups. It's very easy to keep the color alive in the breed, just keep breeding from the black pups ;)

The livers were a total suprise to them, they even claimed at first the pups couldn't be liver because the color wasn't anywhere to be found in Winni or Maverick bloodlines. They called Riker a 'red' :lol:

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Re: Blu's Black and Liver Tams???

Post by Rahne » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:59 am

darazan wrote:I really like the Black Grey/Black Phase Tamaskans, but I do understand that it really is a rarity in Tamaskan lines without outcrossing. Does the TDR have any plans for these Black Grey Tamaskans, since they are an accepted coat color in the Breed Standard?
Well I 'hope' (will need to be accepted by the TDR) to cross in a (dominant black) Groenendael in the future. This should give you pups with the same color as Winni and her black pups. It's a different type of black then the Black Grey btw (Tumanra and Rann), which is a recessive gene on a different loci.
darazan wrote: Also, since the subject of outcrossing was brought up, are any other breeds/lines still being brought into the Tamaskan to "bolster the bloodlines" as it were or has the Tamaskan reached a point where breeding is only Tamaskan x Tamaskan without the worry of inbreeding or passing on illnesses or disorders?
Yes we are bringing in new lines. We accepted a new Foundation female recently, a mix Saarloos Wolfdog/German Shepherd/White Swiss Shepherd/Siberian Husky. In the US there are plans to bring in Hedlund Husky.

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Re: Blu's Black and Liver Tams???

Post by Tiantai » Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:35 pm

I like the Hedlund Husky idea, they're more serious-minded much like the Seppala Huskies but are still known for their friendly and work-oriented nature.
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Re: Blu's Black and Liver Tams???

Post by darazan » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:03 am

I hadn't heard of a Hedland husky before, but I've got to say they've got a nice look to them if the Google search wasn't lying to me, lol.
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Re: Blu's Black and Liver Tams???

Post by Tiantai » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:45 pm

I often use daum because of the junk load of crap that google gives me most of the time. Unfortunately for most people, because of the fact that the search engines I use are in Korean, obviously not everyone is going to be able to use it.
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